What i'm doing to cure candida, and why I'm doing it with ClO2 enema's

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  • #88727

    lmm
    Member
    Topics: 29
    Replies: 138

    Chris24 wrote: Feeling hot one moment and cold the next (food reactions)

    Hi Chris,

    I’m currently making my way through posts, and think this is all very interesting. My stomachs mimic yours almost entirely. In terms of the hot and cold spells, this is almost certainly because of the chronic fatigue. When it happens to me, I try to remind myself that it is because of the toxins in the hypothalamus. This helps to allay fears of it being related to food, and I can remind myself that food increases core body temperature due to respiration, which may be poorly monitored by the hypothalamus.

    Cheers,
    Len

    #88729

    Chris24
    Member
    Topics: 12
    Replies: 329

    Bucephalus wrote: You have to admit Chris.
    With what you say, most of what you have said, seems to be sourced from Jorge. In fact, if I read your posts without a name on it, I would have thought it was Jorge.
    You can’t deny you have damaged your credibility also when you talk about a “cure”, yet you still have a white tongue.

    When you do things like that, how can people believe what you say? Truly….
    When you say things like, “Candida cannot exist in the small intestine”, are we to believe that too, since you have proven yourself in this thread to stretch the truth.

    David.

    You dont understand. There is no magic cure to candida. What you have to consider is the extreme effectiveness of this treatment in getting rid of most of your symptoms in no time, meaning the foundation of the disease is touched enough so you can reach a cure. Attacking the fungal overgrowth is the biggest step in reaching a cure in this protocol. I have had a LOT of experience in dealing with candida, and this is the most groundbreaking thing I have done against it. It works, what else can you ask?

    Credibility? I really dont care. I have no personal benefit at all in propagating this measure of curing yourself other then me wanting to share my own little knowledge, perspective and experience. I have told everyone from the start that I am not a medical professional, and I conclude all my findings on MY research and experience, which can all be very helpful. I even advice everyone to not believe as I say and do their own research. Dont project an authority figure on me and then be disappointed with that projection. And a white tongue? That is not bad at all, what about no bloating, no constipation, no food reactions, no brain fog.. My brother has a white tongue, yet he doesnt have candida overgrowth.

    I said most of the candida is in the colon, not all of it, and for a reason. There might be candida in the lower part of the small intestines aswell, which is why I talked about taking it orally or combining this with some other antifungal.

    #88739

    Chris24
    Member
    Topics: 12
    Replies: 329

    Javizy wrote: What Chris said about the small intestine holds for healthy people only. A lack of HCl, bicarbonate, digestive enzymes etc is one potential cause of GI chaos that could lead to an eventual overgrowth. Enemas obviously don’t take account of the potential underlying causes behind these issues, although that may be true of the protocol too. 

    If Jorge’s theory about candida burdening the immune system is right, then you should expect some sort of results. To expect them regardless either assumes that chronic infection is some one-dimensional disease with a fixed treatment or that MMS is some kind of cure-all that transcends everything else we use to treat disease and sub-optimal health (a belief of that Jim shill).

    I do believe MMS is a cure-all (well, cure-most), because most of our diseases are caused by pathogens, which are eliminated by chlorine dioxide. Even virusses are disrupted in their growth. One of the best and most credible explanations about the mechanisms of chlorine dioxide I found to be this one: http://bioredox.mysite.com/CLOXhtml/CLOXprnt+refs.htm

    Javizy wrote:
    This seems to be the so-called research. Gram negative and gram positive bacteria both have negative charge, so how does ClO2 cleanse the air and food products so well? Healthy human intercellular pH is acidic, but I’m not sure if this changes in the GI tract, which has varying pH levels. Bacteria differ in their affinity for certain pH, so I’m sure they’re not all above 7. It tends to be the beneficial bacteria that are acidophilic. I know basically no chemistry, so I’d appreciate an explanation if Chris has critically researched the chemistry behind this and isn’t just rehashing the above quote that’s copied and pasted on all MMS propaganda sites. 

    Well besides what I already wrote:
    Wont it hurt my good bacteria? How can it differentiate?
    There is a difference between good bacteria and pathogens, and one of those differences is their electrical charge. Chlorine dioxide as a free radical by definition is positively charged, and takes an elektron from the negatively charged pathogens; the latter donates it and oxidizes. Good bacteria, with their positive charge, have nothing to donate, and chlorine dioxide should therefore leave them alone. Some free radicals arise normally during metabolism. Sometimes the body’s immune system’s cells purposefully create them to neutralize viruses and bacteria.

    There is this: Scientists have already observed that the cell membranes of many disease-causing bacteria develop resistance by changing their electrical charge from negative to positive. Many antibiotics work because they carry a positive charge that attracts them to negatively charged bacteria cells. The opposite charges allow antibiotics to penetrate and kill bacteria. But by changing their naturally occurring negative charge to positive, some bacteria cells establish a protective “coat” that repels the antibiotic. http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/resistance.htm

    Unlike antibiotics, pathogens can not create a resistence to chlorine dioxide, because the oxidizing mechanism is always the same.

    About that PH range: The great thing about chlorine dioxide is that it is effective in a wide range, the efficacy doesnt seem to be effected by PH as you can read here:
    One of the most important properties of ClO2 that sets it apart from chlorine is its behavior when placed in water. Not only is ClO2 10 times more soluble in water than chlorine (3.01 grams/Liter at 25 degrees C), it doesn’t hydrolyze when placed in solution. It remains as a “true” dissolved gas that retains its useful oxidative and biocidal properties throughout the entire 2 to 10 pH range. By way of contrast, chlorine dissociates when placed in water to form hypochlorous and hydrochloric acids. Hypochlorous acid is the primary biocide in solution, which dissociates to form hypochlorite ion with increasing pH. Hypochlorite ion is only from 1/20 to 1/300 as effective in controlling microbes as hypochlorous acid. Thus, chlorine can only be an effective biocide in systems with low pH. The high degree of solubility exhibited by ClO2 in water has also been observed in a variety of organic materials, such as oils and solvents, thereby allowing for utilization of its unique oxidative and biocidal properties in a wide range of potential applications. http://www.healthsalon.org/284/mms-chlorine-dioxide-chemistry/

    And here: Chlorine dioxide is an extremely powerful oxidizing agent, microbiocide, viricide, bactericide, protocide and algicide. Unlike chlorine, chlorine dioxide is not a chlorinating agent and pure chlorine dioxide does not form THMs, it doesn’t chlorinate organics, and it doesn’t react with water to form free chlorine. Additionally, Chlorine dioxide is soluble in water, is less corrosive than chlorine and has efficacy across a broad pH range. http://www.thesabrecompanies.com/science.aspx http://www.thesabrecompanies.com/science/properties.aspx

    And: Because Chlorine dioxide is a dissolved gas, it does not ionise to form weak acids (as chlorine and bromine do) in aqueous solutions. This allows chlorine dioxide to be effective over a wide pH range. http://www.safeox.com/chlorine-dioxide-clo2

    hope this helps?

    #88759

    Bucephalus
    Member
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 87

    I’m not disappointed that you’re not an authority on this topic.
    I’m just disappointed that this thread is laced with the word cure, when you don’t even know if what you’re doing is a cure or not, nor do you know if ti’s the quickest way to a cure. You know how i know? Because you haven’t been cured yet, so you haven’t even proved to yourself if this is the quickest path to a cure yet.

    you overtalk yourself basically.
    It’s all just pure speculation so far – not a cure.

    #88760

    flailingWcandi
    Member
    Topics: 13
    Replies: 277
    #88767

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    Chris24 wrote: There is a difference between good bacteria and pathogens, and one of those differences is their electrical charge. Chlorine dioxide as a free radical by definition is positively charged, and takes an elektron from the negatively charged pathogens; the latter donates it and oxidizes. Good bacteria, with their positive charge, have nothing to donate, and chlorine dioxide should therefore leave them alone. Some free radicals arise normally during metabolism. Sometimes the body’s immune system’s cells purposefully create them to neutralize viruses and bacteria.

    There is this: Scientists have already observed that the cell membranes of many disease-causing bacteria develop resistance by changing their electrical charge from negative to positive. Many antibiotics work because they carry a positive charge that attracts them to negatively charged bacteria cells. The opposite charges allow antibiotics to penetrate and kill bacteria. But by changing their naturally occurring negative charge to positive, some bacteria cells establish a protective “coat” that repels the antibiotic. http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/resistance.htm

    Unlike antibiotics, pathogens can not create a resistence to chlorine dioxide, because the oxidizing mechanism is always the same.

    About that PH range: The great thing about chlorine dioxide is that it is effective in a wide range, the efficacy doesnt seem to be effected by PH as you can read here:
    One of the most important properties of ClO2 that sets it apart from chlorine is its behavior when placed in water. Not only is ClO2 10 times more soluble in water than chlorine (3.01 grams/Liter at 25 degrees C), it doesn’t hydrolyze when placed in solution. It remains as a “true” dissolved gas that retains its useful oxidative and biocidal properties throughout the entire 2 to 10 pH range. By way of contrast, chlorine dissociates when placed in water to form hypochlorous and hydrochloric acids. Hypochlorous acid is the primary biocide in solution, which dissociates to form hypochlorite ion with increasing pH. Hypochlorite ion is only from 1/20 to 1/300 as effective in controlling microbes as hypochlorous acid. Thus, chlorine can only be an effective biocide in systems with low pH. The high degree of solubility exhibited by ClO2 in water has also been observed in a variety of organic materials, such as oils and solvents, thereby allowing for utilization of its unique oxidative and biocidal properties in a wide range of potential applications. http://www.healthsalon.org/284/mms-chlorine-dioxide-chemistry/

    And here: Chlorine dioxide is an extremely powerful oxidizing agent, microbiocide, viricide, bactericide, protocide and algicide. Unlike chlorine, chlorine dioxide is not a chlorinating agent and pure chlorine dioxide does not form THMs, it doesn’t chlorinate organics, and it doesn’t react with water to form free chlorine. Additionally, Chlorine dioxide is soluble in water, is less corrosive than chlorine and has efficacy across a broad pH range. http://www.thesabrecompanies.com/science.aspx http://www.thesabrecompanies.com/science/properties.aspx

    And: Because Chlorine dioxide is a dissolved gas, it does not ionise to form weak acids (as chlorine and bromine do) in aqueous solutions. This allows chlorine dioxide to be effective over a wide pH range. http://www.safeox.com/chlorine-dioxide-clo2

    hope this helps?

    Beneficial bacteria are made up of both gram positive (~90%) and gram negative bacteria. According to Wiki, both kinds have a negative charge. This is what seems to contradict the explanation. If it is an everythingacide, then it’s hard to imagine that it can discriminate relatively similar bacterial strains. Like I said, I don’t know any chemistry, so I doubt this discussion will get very far either way. Maybe I’ll take a look at the links. It’s probably worth mentioning that a lot of the antimicrobial herbs aren’t particularly discriminatory either, and “good” bacteria aren’t as awesome as they seem in large numbers.

    flailingWcandi wrote: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304818404577345953943484054.html

    That’s pretty interesting. They didn’t have a comment from the company though. I guess they wouldn’t discuss their ingredients either way. It does make you wonder what kind of treatments would be available if we didn’t have to depend on whatever compounds happen to have synthetic, patentable equivalents.

    It’s not clear from reading the article if it’s actually effective or not. One other thing to point out is that when it comes to conditions like ALS, the typical limits on the severity of side-effects goes out of the window. These sort of drugs are designed to keep people alive at all costs, not make them healthy. You should see what some cancer drugs do. I’m not saying ClO2 is that toxic, just that it doesn’t show us that the opposite is true either.

    #88781

    Floggi
    Member
    Topics: 1
    Replies: 425

     

    Chris24 wrote: most of our diseases are caused by pathogens, which are eliminated by chlorine dioxide.

    As I explained earlier, you are right – but there’s more to be said.

    One very important thing is dat chlorine dioxide does not discriminate between “good” and “bad” bacteria. Heck, some bacteria cannot even be categorised as either “good” or “bad”. Reality consists of many shades of grey, you know.

    So, you are right when you say that chlorine dioxide attacks pathogens. But you should also mention that chlorine dioxide attacks the “good” bacteria as well, and that it even attacks the cells that line the inside of the colon.

    Chris24 wrote: Chlorine dioxide as a free radical by definition is positively charged, and takes an elektron from the negatively charged pathogens

    I’m sorry to say that this is not true.

    Refer, for example, to Wikipedia, from which I quote:

    Free radicals may have positive, negative, or zero charge.

    Chris24 wrote: Unlike antibiotics, pathogens can not create a resistence to chlorine dioxide, because the oxidizing mechanism is always the same.

    This, then, also cannot be true in general.

    You stated that pathogens can develop resistance to positively charged antibiotics by changing their cell-membrane charge from negative to positive, thus repelling the antibiotics. You also stated that the positively charged chlorine dioxide attacks the negatively charged pathogen cells. But if these pathogen cells develop immunity by changing their cell charge from negative to positive, they will equally well repel the chlorine dioxide.

    As the attack vector of chlorine dioxide is the same as the attack vector of an antibiotic (namely: the supposed negative charge of the pathogen), an immunity against antibiotics by a change in cell charge implies an immunity to chlorine dioxide.

    (Oh, by the way – in reality, resistance to antibiotics is not as simple as changing the charge of the cell membrane. Real cells have many more defense systems.)

    Chris24 wrote: And here: Chlorine dioxide is an extremely powerful oxidizing agent, microbiocide, viricide, bactericide, protocide and algicide. Unlike chlorine, chlorine dioxide is not a chlorinating agent and pure chlorine dioxide does not form THMs, it doesn’t chlorinate organics, and it doesn’t react with water to form free chlorine. Additionally, Chlorine dioxide is soluble in water, is less corrosive than chlorine and has efficacy across a broad pH range.

    Yeah, blah blah. May be right – this text basically says that chlorine dioxide just attacks anything of biological origin. Including the good bacteria, and including your own body.
     

    #88796

    flailingWcandi
    Member
    Topics: 13
    Replies: 277

    Javizy wrote:

    That’s pretty interesting. They didn’t have a comment from the company though. I guess they wouldn’t discuss their ingredients either way. It does make you wonder what kind of treatments would be available if we didn’t have to depend on whatever compounds happen to have synthetic, patentable equivalents.

    I’m on the fence with C102 and seriously researching it as Chris has suggested to everyone to. There are many pros/cons. Without access to nystatin presently, it’s an interesting agent to consider: however not without serious risks. From my understanding it can deplete electrolytes causing a whole world of trouble: just one horrible potential side effect and not something to rush into.

    There’s much talk about NP001 being a form of C102 (perhaps a different delivery system?)
    science blogs

    #88798

    Bucephalus
    Member
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 87

    There is not much research on this chemical really. Not even sure if there is any credible peer-reviewed research in a respectable journal.
    one way to do your research is to try it.
    I have tried three mms enemas now….I’m not going to try anymore. I get terrible pains, and noises, and I”m just not sure what damage I’m doing down there.
    I’m going to stick to nystatin and bicarb soda enemas.

    Although, i was just skyping with a girl in Kenya, who was from the rurual areas, and she mentioned most of my symptoms. White tongue, bad breath, stomach upset, plus she has vaginal itching. She had it for a year, went to doctors, they couldn’t help her, then finally her mother and aunt said, “that’s it, we’re trying this herbal medicine we have here.” She had that for two weeks ,and it went away, and she hasn’t had it back. THat was 5 years ago.

    Sounds too good to be true, but i’m doing more inquiries.
    David.

    #88990

    nikki
    Member
    Topics: 44
    Replies: 136

    Hi Chris24,

    good to know that you are feeling symptom free. Keep updating over here about your treatment.

    I dont know much about the chemicals, but I am convinced after reading posts from you and dvjorge that enemas are the best way to fight this infestation. Though what to do the enema with can be a point of discussion.

    I am looking forward to start enemas as soon as my life style permits, may be I will try to get some nystatin powder if possible.

    I don’t know why people are strongly opposed to enemas. Is it just because it was brought into the forum by some one else??… IDK

    but, I know that enemas are practiced in Ayurveda since centuries, as a treatment for many conditions..

    #88992

    Floggi
    Member
    Topics: 1
    Replies: 425

     
    It does not matter at all who submits an idea. The discussion should never be about the submitter, because he is only the messenger. The discussion should focus on the message itself.

    In this case, the message was that you should use chlorine dioxide. That stuff may be quite agressive, depending on the concentration. It will attack not only the candida, but also the good bacteria, and even the inside of your intestine.

    This is just a summary of the reason for warning against this (not all, just this) enema. For the complete backgrounds of this warning, please feel free to read this thread.
     

    #89803

    JaxPacific
    Member
    Topics: 0
    Replies: 2

    Hey, what happened to this? Did anyone’s colon ever fall out?

    The main thing(s) I am interested in is the intestinal lining, and introducing a powerful free radical into the system. I mean.. I’ve guinea pigged myself enough and I’ll probably go buy some tomorrow, but you have to think it out a bit right?

    So follow my train of thought here. I’d like to call it logic, but that might be overly optimistic of myself..

    So..

    Candida changes it’s form and has a tendency to burrow..
    this can and often does result in a breakdown of mucosal lining..
    this can lead to “leaky gut” for lack of any better term..
    unless oxidized rapidly (meaning this stuff), whatever is in the gut could become partially systemic..

    so referring to the effect on “healthy” cells could be a moot point, correct? Maybe we can talk about how the unhealthy ones are affected too?

    Potential issues:

    A worsening of lesions in the colon..
    harsh free radicals in colon and body..

    Secondary issues:

    Enemas are often effective not just because they affect the colon, but it is also thought that the colon (specifically colo-rectal region) is one of the most effective pathways to the Liver, and the Lungs. SO as far as cleansing is concerned, that would make sense, especially when it comes to candida and the 80 proof it sends to my brain. The concern would come in sending a free radical to an already burdened liver. But.. see the next 2 paragraphs for why it might work..

    SO.. It sounds like this is good to wipe things out, and start over.
    introducing free radicals into the body does not sound like a long term plan for good health.. maybe do it, but then revert to a healthy, anti-inflammatory diet afterward.. as a pro-inflammatory diet rife in free- radicals is a recipe for imminent disaster.
    cancer comes to mind first, but I can list about 38 others off the top of my head.

    {I would propose working an antioxidant into the bloodstream prior to administering the enema but the timing would need to be worked out, as the Vitamin C issue (mentioned earlier) kind of made sense. I can think of a couple things to try where water solubility isn’t as much of an issue.. could be a start.}

    BUT..

    not cleaning out the ol’ col-ster is also prone to its long list of degrading and progressive diseases.. I have one of them and I would rather kick the candida and see how much better I can get.. because my health will not allow me to be on the candida diet, it might kill me before the candida was actually gone.

    I do see a few things that don’t add up with the arguments for and against.. but hey.. not many things can penetrate a biofilm, especially when it’s so far away from your mouth..so..

    Lastly,

    ..So did anyone’s colon fall out??

    🙂

    This forum is awesome..

    #89963

    Chris24
    Member
    Topics: 12
    Replies: 329

    Had a mental setback causing relapse and left the forum, only occaisionally answering pm’s. I am trying to eat healthy, but clearly it isnt enough. I pushed it a little too far with the enema’s last week and had some discomfort and soreness throughout the day: I did enema’s with 10 drops in each round for 3 rounds per enema, 2 days in a row. So that was a little too much, now I know. also I shouldt drink coffee. But i tried quitting like 10 times and now im like: forget it.

    The enema’s now cause massive die off followed by a day or 2 of clearity and energy, until my diet or my mind f*cks it up again and I feel crap again.

    So, although the enema’s are causing die off meaning they are killing candida, it still doesnt seem to be enough in my case. I will keep doing the enema’s though and hope that my original progress will come back.

    But-ah.. nope, colon didnt fall out. Still, people need to be careful with this method. Die off can be pretty severe I have noticed lately. Also, it is very advisable to get off of coffee and alcohol all together, and to follow a healthy diet. Ive also been taking loads of extra anti-oxidants (vit C, A and D) which seem to help somewhat.

    #90181

    Floggi
    Member
    Topics: 1
    Replies: 425

     
    In order to assess the effects of a treatment, one should of course look at what it does to one’s body. Doing so, all possible explanations for any observed effect should be considered.

    You mention only one possible explanation. If I may phrase your explanation in my words, you say that the ClO2 enema kills candida. Too strong an enema causes discomfort and soreness (observation), but you do not know why, only that those effects occur. A less strong enema kills candida, you think, resulting in you feeling worse (observation) because of die-off (your explanation). Then you feel better (observation) because much of the candida is now gone (your explanation). Then the candida returns and the cycle starts anew.

    (Please correct me if my understanding of your observations and explanations is incorrect.)

    However, as I said at the beginning of this reaction, your explanations are only one possibility. There are other possibilities. We should assess those too.

    So, please allow me to add another possible explanation to our stock:

    This other explanation is that the ClO2 enema may kill some candida, some other bad bacteria, and some good bacteria – but it also irritates your intestines. Too strong an enema therefore causes severe irritation, perhaps even “corrosion”, of the internal lining of your intestines. This causes discomfort and soreness (your observation), because the intestines are damaged (explanation).

    A less strong enema causes less irritation, but your intestines are still irritated. This makes you feel worse (observation), not because of any effect on candida, but because of irritated intestines (explanation). Two days later you feel better (observation) because your intestines have recovered/healed (explanation).

    Well, now we have two sets of explanations on the table, instead of just one. Perhaps there are even more sets of explanations – anyone who can think of an alternative explanation, please share it with us, so that we can add it to what’s already on the table.

    After that, we may try to cooperate in finding a way to decide which of all those explanations is the best one.
     

    #90192

    candida_sucks
    Member
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 148

    Chris24 wrote: Had a mental setback causing relapse and left the forum, only occaisionally answering pm’s. I am trying to eat healthy, but clearly it isnt enough. I pushed it a little too far with the enema’s last week and had some discomfort and soreness throughout the day: I did enema’s with 10 drops in each round for 3 rounds per enema, 2 days in a row. So that was a little too much, now I know. also I shouldt drink coffee. But i tried quitting like 10 times and now im like: forget it.

    The enema’s now cause massive die off followed by a day or 2 of clearity and energy, until my diet or my mind f*cks it up again and I feel crap again.

    So, although the enema’s are causing die off meaning they are killing candida, it still doesnt seem to be enough in my case. I will keep doing the enema’s though and hope that my original progress will come back.

    But-ah.. nope, colon didnt fall out. Still, people need to be careful with this method. Die off can be pretty severe I have noticed lately. Also, it is very advisable to get off of coffee and alcohol all together, and to follow a healthy diet. Ive also been taking loads of extra anti-oxidants (vit C, A and D) which seem to help somewhat.

    Just my two cents:

    I know you do your enemas with distilled water and ClO2. I once tried a sinus rinse with distilled water, and found that it stings the mucous membranes quite a bit. For this reason, makers of sinus rinses (like NeilMed) sell packets of salt/sodium bicarbonate solution to mix with the distilled water. This prevents any irritation of the mucous membranes.

    I have no idea if the mucous membranes in the intestines have any similarity to the mucous membranes in the sinus cavity, but until someone tells me otherwise I will wager that they do before I will wager that they do not. If they are similar, then I’d expect that distilled water can irritate the colon as well. I once tried some enemas using just distilled water, and observed that my colon was rather irritated (sore and inflamed) afterwards. I have added sea salt to all subsequent enemas; never again did I experience that level of irritation.

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