(O)estrogen inhibits lactase

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This topic contains 11 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  Lewis28 6 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #88102

    Javizy
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    I found this interesting, because oestrogen seems to be a big deal with candida, and many people complain of dairy intolerance.

    “E2 [oestrogen extract] induced considerable decreases of .. 46% .. in the activities of intestinal .. lactase [enzyme that digests lactose]”
    http://pmid.us/21080139

    I’ve read that oestrogen can either feed yeasts or encourages them to reproduce somehow, but I haven’t found a reference yet. It’s touted as the “female hormone” and dolled out readily in the form of oral contraceptives, but oestrogen dominance can seriously mess with your body. I know that OC use is linked with candida overgrowth. Interestingly, it seems like oestrogen’s counterpart, progesterone, might stimulate lactase (maybe by reversing oestrogen dominance?).

    “The study revealed that the activities of brush border sucrase, lactase and leucine aminopeptidase were stimulated only at high doses”
    http://pmid.us/2307501

    Back to lactase – anyone suffering from SIBO and dairy intolerance might be interested in this too.

    “Culture supernatant and deoxycholate [stuff produced by bacteria], both alone and combined, significantly reduced lactase, sucrase, and maltase activity”.
    http://pmid.us/1973395

    #88157

    Latka
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    That’s very interesting. I’ve already come to the conclusion that my biggest problem is oestrogen dominance. Just don’t know what to do about it. I also have a self diagnosed dairy intolerance (consuming dairy increases the swelling in my body) even though all my tests show no dairy intolerance. It is possible then that it is the increased oestrogen messing things up for me. Though what’s also interesting is that consuming home made kefir is what made things a lot worse for me; I am not entirely sure it was because of the dairy actually, could have been the cultures? I came to suspect that and then I heard this guy, Josh Rubin mentioning that it is often the cultures that cause the problem.

    #88172

    Javizy
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    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    Latka wrote: That’s very interesting. I’ve already come to the conclusion that my biggest problem is oestrogen dominance. Just don’t know what to do about it. I also have a self diagnosed dairy intolerance (consuming dairy increases the swelling in my body) even though all my tests show no dairy intolerance. It is possible then that it is the increased oestrogen messing things up for me. Though what’s also interesting is that consuming home made kefir is what made things a lot worse for me; I am not entirely sure it was because of the dairy actually, could have been the cultures? I came to suspect that and then I heard this guy, Josh Rubin mentioning that it is often the cultures that cause the problem.

    Have you verified your oestrogen dominance with labs? Have you read any of what Peat says about it? Progesterone supplementation can quickly relieve symptoms if you’re sure the oestrogen/progesterone ratio is too high (it should be 1:10 apparently). Other things I’ve seen mentioned that lower oestrogen are adequate protein, B-vitamins, calcium, vitamin E, thyroid and aspirin. Peat actually has his own progesterone supplement called Progest-E that’s mixed with vitamin E oil. It’s a lot easier to accurately dose than creams, which are unreliably absorbed and usually full of junk (sometimes oestrogens!) too. I’m not recommending anything, but you might want to read up on it if your oestrogen is high. Avoiding dietary oestrogens (legumes esp. soy, raw crucifers etc) and other sources like plastics, pesticides, many commercial creams and cosmetics etc is safe for anyone though. Apparently the ole raw carrot can prevent reabsorption in the gut too.

    #88222

    Latka
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    I don’t think my oestrogen levels were ever checked before, but I’ll need to take a look at the last lab work to be sure. Otherwise I will have to request them to check it next time. This is a whole new area of investigation for me so my knowledge is still limited. My doctor did put me on DHEA and I am not actually sure what it is for but it had something to do with my sex hormone levels. As far as I understand it is to support my tired adrenals and to boost testosterone. No other doctor here in Norway even seems to ever have heard of DHEA. I really don’t know what it is or does but can tell that it does make a difference in terms of my general energy levels and strength. This is what he resorted to when I failed to respond to the desiccated natural thyroid as expected.

    It was reading Ray Peat that I actually came to suspect that oestrogen dominance might be a problem; I have so many of the symptoms including water retention (could be low thyroid as well), suddenly getting fat especially around my abdomen and back, mood swings, heavy periods, hot flashes, and the dairy intolerance. I am approaching the age when the progesterone levels drop anyhow though I am too young to be going through menopause yet (which is why I don’t get why I’m getting these hot flashes). And of course I’m hypothyroid too which can explain some of these things but I’ve also read that there is often a link between low thyroid and oestrogen dominance.

    I’ve been at least trying to read about what kinds of foods to eat to lower oestrogen and to increase progesterone. Thought of trying to do this through nutrition if possible. I got the raw carrot thing from Ray Peat and do eat raw carrot every day now (the one good thing that came out of being on the candida diet is that I am no longer allergic to raw carrot, as I was for years before!). For being hypothyroid I was already cooking my cruciferous veggies very well, but am thinking now that perhaps it would be best to avoid them altogether.

    I also wonder about getting adequate protein: whether it is not only about the amount of protein but also the variety and quality that matter? Thinking since many of my problems (water retention, getting fat and puffy) started while on this strict diet where I was eating a lot of eggs but only eggs; maybe the problem was not enought different sources for protein? Just a hunch but I do seem to remember having read something about this as well.

    Of course I am intrigued about how blood sugar regulation relates to all of this; for example Josh Rubin mentions that oestrogen dominance can be a sign of blood sugar dysregulation. Given my history of skipping meals, dieting and going hungry this might explain a lot, especially why I got so much worse while on the strict diet. The blood sugar regulation might be an important aspect in relation to Candida as well. When I was diagnosed with Candida overgrowth based on my symptoms of abdominal bloating which my doctor called as being “sugar reaction”, I thought it was weird: I only ever got bloated when I went hungry for a long time. So how could it be a reaction to sugar? Of course now I’ve read that not getting adequate carbs for example can actually cause your blood sugar levels to spike, so maybe that’s an explanation. I know this is something I need to consider more thoroughly.

    Thanks for your thoughts and for the link. Really appreciate it. As tempting as it would be just to order another supplement and hope it is the magic ingredient needed to fix it all, I know that hormones aren’t something to play with. I need to understand how it all functions and the role of nutrition so definetely will keep reading more.

    #88229

    Javizy
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    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    Latka wrote: I am approaching the age when the progesterone levels drop anyhow though I am too young to be going through menopause yet

    Have you been able to get your progesterone levels tested? I’ve heard oestrogen tests aren’t very accurate, although seeing an oestrogen:progesterone ratio might not hurt anyway. Progest-E seems to be quite a shortcut judging by reviews, but you do need to do your research when it comes to hormones.

    Latka wrote: My doctor did put me on DHEA and I am not actually sure what it is for but it had something to do with my sex hormone levels. As far as I understand it is to support my tired adrenals and to boost testosterone.

    Here’s a diagram of the steroid pathways. Different things encourage the production of the enzymes that determine what hormones you end up with. This is one reason I don’t buy “adrenal fatigue”. It’s not that your adrenals are “worn out”; it’s that something is throwing a spanner in the works of these pathways.

    DHEA is DehydroepiAndrosterone on the top right. If your levels are low according to labs, supplementing can help, but it may be a symptom of another spanner earlier in the pathway. This is probably where your hypothyroidism comes in: pregnenolone, the “mother” steroid, is made from cholesterol + T3 + vitamin A. If you still have high cholesterol, you may not have enough T3 to use it. If your cholesterol is normal, stress could be an issue, since it pushes too much of your pregnenolone supply through the middle pathway to create cortisol.

    Latka wrote: For being hypothyroid I was already cooking my cruciferous veggies very well, but am thinking now that perhaps it would be best to avoid them altogether.

    It’s definitely not good to pile down the crucifers, but they did use them (5 days/week) in a successful hypothyroid diet detailed in this post.

    Latka wrote: I also wonder about getting adequate protein: whether it is not only about the amount of protein but also the variety and quality that matter?

    I already dislike this phrase. It’s hard to push above 50g/day without stuffing my face. Apparently you need it for the conversion of T4 > T3 in the liver. Eggs, dairy and muscle meats are high in tryptophan, which gets converted to serotonin, which has nasty side-effects in anything above optimal amounts. Peat and others recommend gelatine (bone broths or powder) to balance out the amino acids. High levels of homocysteine and methionine are others problems with the animal proteins, as well as with muscle wasting during low-carb, low-protein diets or fasting. Apparently calcium encourages tryptophan > niacin conversion, so dairy isn’t so bad.

    #88235

    Latka
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    I don’t think I’ve had my progesterone levels tested. The focus has been mainly on the adrenals and thyroid so far. But since I haven’t responded to the treatment as expected, and my doctor has no clue as to why, I will have to keep doing my own research and then bring some of it to him. The progesterone – oesterogen balance does seem like it could be an important factor to look into.

    I think you are right about the adrenal fatigue, that it’s not necessarily the adrenals themselves that are dysfunctional but that something could be throwing things off elsewhere and then they cannot work (or do not get what they need ot work). Supplementation in that sense becomes a bit of a band aid solution unless you figure out what is causing the problem. For me it was probably stress. Likewise I have my suspicion that it is not necessarily the thyroid itself that malfunctions in every case of hypothyroidism; it could be something else (i.e. lowered cellular metabolism due to insufficient nutrition for example? This then leads to down regulation of many bodily functions such as hormone production?).

    I have been a bit of a weird case from the start with my TSH levels normal, my cholesterol quite normal, thyroid levels within the range, and yet I had all the clinical hypothyroid symptoms. The only things bit off that the lab results showed were deficiencies in vit D, magnesium, B vits and iron. And low DHEA. I felt better since starting my hormonal supplementation but to be honest I was in such a bad condition that it didn’t take much to “feel better”. Apparently my lab results are not what my doctor expected them to be by now. One thing was that my body temperatures hardly improved and my doctor just didn’t understand why. It is only now that I’ve read Ray Peat and started experimenting with eating more sugar that my temperatures have actually improved a little.

    Javizy wrote:
    It’s hard to push above 50g/day without stuffing my face. Apparently you need it for the conversion of T4 > T3 in the liver. Eggs, dairy and muscle meats are high in tryptophan, which gets converted to serotonin, which has nasty side-effects in anything above optimal amounts. Peat and others recommend gelatine (bone broths or powder) to balance out the amino acids. High levels of homocysteine and methionine are others problems with the animal proteins, as well as with muscle wasting during low-carb, low-protein diets or fasting. Apparently calcium encourages tryptophan > niacin conversion, so dairy isn’t so bad.

    I started to suspect that perhaps eating too much of one type of protein was part of the problem. And now I see that eggs are high in tryptophan which then leads to increased serotonin, which I’ve read is not good. And I was really relying heavily on eating loads of eggs. That’s actually when my bloating started, but of course I also understand that it might not be just one thing that caused it. More like the very bad combination of eating loads of eggs, very low carb, low calorie as well as the stress caused by this. Now trying to eat more gelatin by making bone broths.

    #88243

    Javizy
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    Topics: 20
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    Latka wrote: I don’t think I’ve had my progesterone levels tested. The focus has been mainly on the adrenals and thyroid so far. But since I haven’t responded to the treatment as expected, and my doctor has no clue as to why, I will have to keep doing my own research and then bring some of it to him. The progesterone – oesterogen balance does seem like it could be an important factor to look into.

    That’s the trouble. Like you can see in the diagram, it’s all inter-related, and those pathways are only a small part of the bigger picture. Hopefully you can find some good clues for your doc to go on. I’d definitely follow up on the oestrogen lead until you can be sure it’s not an issue.

    Latka wrote: I think you are right about the adrenal fatigue, that it’s not necessarily the adrenals themselves that are dysfunctional but that something could be throwing things off elsewhere and then they cannot work (or do not get what they need ot work). Supplementation in that sense becomes a bit of a band aid solution unless you figure out what is causing the problem. For me it was probably stress. Likewise I have my suspicion that it is not necessarily the thyroid itself that malfunctions in every case of hypothyroidism; it could be something else (i.e. lowered cellular metabolism due to insufficient nutrition for example? This then leads to down regulation of many bodily functions such as hormone production?).

    I think you’re right about hypothyroidism. Lifelong medication doesn’t make sense for people without any damage to the gland. Other factors are rarely investigated or even understood, so it wouldn’t surprise me if at least some people could be cured. This probably applies to many health problems.

    Latka wrote: I have been a bit of a weird case from the start with my TSH levels normal, my cholesterol quite normal, thyroid levels within the range, and yet I had all the clinical hypothyroid symptoms. The only things bit off that the lab results showed were deficiencies in vit D, magnesium, B vits and iron. And low DHEA. I felt better since starting my hormonal supplementation but to be honest I was in such a bad condition that it didn’t take much to “feel better”. Apparently my lab results are not what my doctor expected them to be by now. One thing was that my body temperatures hardly improved and my doctor just didn’t understand why. It is only now that I’ve read Ray Peat and started experimenting with eating more sugar that my temperatures have actually improved a little.

    Have you had your FT4 and FT3 checked together? If the ratio is high, it can indicate high reverse T3, which is a sign of conversion issues and inability of T3 to act in the cells, so you end up hypothyroid anyway. Doctors rarely test RT3, so it’s useful to look at the FT4:FT3 ratio to estimate it. It’s possible your medication could interfere with the results though.

    Latka wrote: I also understand that it might not be just one thing that caused it. More like the very bad combination of eating loads of eggs, very low carb, low calorie as well as the stress caused by this. Now trying to eat more gelatin by making bone broths.

    There never seems to be a simple answer for anything when it comes to health and nutrition. I do find that balance is important though. Hopefully you notice some improvement after diversifying your diet a bit.

    #88266

    Javizy
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    Topics: 20
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    By the way, I listened to an interesting interview with Peat on progesterone and oestrogen. It’s a bit long, but there’s some really interesting stuff in there. Like the fact that rats without any adrenals could cope with stress as long as they were given progesterone.

    #88269

    Latka
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    Yes I’ve had both my FT4 and FT3 checked but am not sure how to interpret the results. What would be a high ratio that would indicate high reverse T3? Earlier on when I did not respond to the supplementation therapy my doctor did mention the possibility of conversion issues. But then he decided to put me on the DHEA instead to see if that might help. And it did somewhat. He has not mentioned the conversion issue since. In any case my FT3 and FT4 have always been within the normal range even if I had hypothyroid symptoms.

    Of course being on desiccated thyroid supplement now probably affects the test results. Even though I do not take it before the blood test, as I understand, it tends to stay in the system a bit longer than a day so some of the previously taken thyroid would still be present. Apparently due to the high dose I am on my own thyroid has pretty much stopped own production by now, my doctor said.

    I was really looking forward to getting my temps and heart rate up after starting the supplementation but there was very little improvement. After reading about the effects of cardio possibly shutting down the production of T3 I realised that I may need to stop exercising so much; having chronically exercised for nearly all my life I took two weeks completely off. Went really easy, even took a bus to work. Interestingly my temperatures started improving. I also noticed that when I restricted my diet my temperatures got lower, and when I increased my carb consumption my temperatures increased very soon, within a week. This is why, at least for me, I need to seriously consider that my hypothyroid symptoms may have been caused by years of restricted dieting and excessive exercising.

    I agree, balance is the key. The tricky part is finding it.

    Thanks for the Ray Peat interview link – will listen to it this weekend!

    #88277

    Javizy
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    A big part of the conversion takes place in the liver, so it might explain some of what you’re experiencing. When glycogen stores in the liver are depleted, T4>T3 conversion shuts down, and this happens during endurance exercise, low-carb or low-calorie diets, and stress. Cortisol can suppress conversion by itself as well. All these things lead to an elevation in RT3 levels too. I think it’s the body’s reaction to a low availability of glucose – it thinks it’s in starvation mode, and RT3 helps to block T3 and slow down metabolism, increasing chances of survival on a minimal food supply.

    Since RT3 antagonises T3, T3 can’t act in the cells as long as RT3 is elevated. Even people producing adequate T4 can become hypothyroid in this scenario, and supplementing T4 just gives the body more fuel to produce RT3. RT3 doesn’t have a very long half-life as far as I remember, but once the conversion problems are bad enough, you can get stuck with a kind of T3 “resistance”. It’s been referred to as Wilson’s Syndrome, although this isn’t officially recognised, and I think it’s another case of overlooking underlying problems.

    Peat talks a lot about the thyroid and things that interfere with TSH, T4 production, conversion of T3, uptake of T3 in the cell etc. I think you’ll learn some useful stuff if you keep reading his articles. Oestrogen is one thing that interferes with T3 within the cell. He mentions that in the interview I posted.

    Following your temps and pulse can be a useful guide. Since you’re on a high dose of meds, you’ll probably have to test for RT3 to find out reliably if it’s an issue. Since your meds aren’t working, I’d guess it’s playing a role, but like I said, it’s not necessarily the cause of anything, like with low cortisol and AF. Don’t get sucked into those crazy Yahoo groups megadosing cytomel. That Josh Rubin guy has a Youtube video on Wilson’s Syndrome.

    If you have some test results from before you started meds, you could work out the FT4:FT3 ratio. If it’s higher than 3 or so (might depends on units/labs specifics), it’s likely RT3 is high. T4 should be converted to T3, so if FT4 is considerably higher than FT3, a large part must be getting converted to RT3. Newer labs might be useful too if you didn’t take a dose from about 8pm the evening before, since T3 has a short half-life (one reason T3 meds are “controversial”, as stupid as that is).

    #88284

    Latka
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    That makes sense and explains a lot.

    My pre-supplementation T4:T3 ratio was 2.8. That doesn’t seem to indicate high RT3. But the low carb diet this year really messed things up for me so it is possible that I have developed new problems as well. Guess the next blood test will be interesting.

    #89985

    Lewis28
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    It is very important to make sure you have the right type of oestrogen in your body. It helps keep your systems balance. By drinking milk products you are greatly diminishing the natural growth balance that causes abnormal cell growth.

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