Do we need pharmaceutical Probiotics ???

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This topic contains 12 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  Floggi 6 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #89151

    dvjorge
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    I doubt we need them !!!

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20736229

    Jorge.

    #89162

    Floggi
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    Sure we do!

    The method that is described in this article is an extension of our arsenal of treatments. It does not replace the existing treatments, it’s just one more possibility in our array of choices.

    Every treatment in this array still has its place. There’s no need for wich hunting.
     

    #89180

    dvjorge
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    Floggi wrote:  
    Sure we do!

    The method that is described in this article is an extension of our arsenal of treatments. It does not replace the existing treatments, it’s just one more possibility in our array of choices.

    Every treatment in this array still has its place. There’s no need for wich hunting.
     

    The method described in that article is the only way to recover indigenous human bacterial species one time we have lost them.

    There isn’t alternative for that with nothing else, even if you don’t like the idea.

    Pharmaceutical grade probiotics don’t implant in the human gut. Moreover, they aren’t the species that domain the intestines. They are a minority almost no mentioned in the main categories.

    Jorge.

    #89194

    Floggi
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    Humans are known to acquire intestinal bacteria from the environment. As long as you keep a decent (as opposed to: overdone) hygiene, and you don’t use antibacterial soap everytime, and you don’t disinfect your surroundings with dettol or similar.

    Babies do that, for example. Little children do that too. It’s one of the reasons they tend to put everything into their mouth.

    Adults do it, too. As you may know, the bacteria you carry with you vary from person to person, but there are several regional similarities. If you emigrate to a different place, you’ll acquire the local bacteria. It may take some time, but you will acquire new species.
     

    #89196

    dvjorge
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    Floggi wrote:  
    Humans are known to acquire intestinal bacteria from the environment. As long as you keep a decent (as opposed to: overdone) hygiene, and you don’t use antibacterial soap everytime, and you don’t disinfect your surroundings with dettol or similar.

    Babies do that, for example. Little children do that too. It’s one of the reasons they tend to put everything into their mouth.

    Adults do it, too. As you may know, the bacteria you carry with you vary from person to person, but there are several regional similarities. If you emigrate to a different place, you’ll acquire the local bacteria. It may take some time, but you will acquire new species.
     

    That is correct but no enough to replace the main bacterial species one time they are damaged. Changes in the microbiota are seen after changes in the alimentary regime, etc.
    What science hasn’t proof is those changes are enough to modulate and reshape a damaged indigenous flora.

    Jorge.

    #89199

    Floggi
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    What do you mean when you say that the main bacteria are “damaged”?

    If human flora can change and adapt, why cannot it “reshape”, as you call it?
     

    #89204

    dvjorge
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    Floggi wrote:  
    What do you mean when you say that the main bacteria are “damaged”?

    If human flora can change and adapt, why cannot it “reshape”, as you call it?
     

    It is well known by medicine that long broad spectrum antibiotic rounds cause permanent and long lasting damage to the gut microbiota.

    It is also well known those changes may compromise important dominant native species ( main enterotypes and phylotypes )

    These species are human origin species acquired by a selective method in the first years of life. During life, there are “minor” changes in the flora composition influenced by the food, environment, medicines, etc.

    When a mayor change occur as a result of antibiotic intake or any other offender, there isn’t way to recover it but with a massive bacterial transplantation from another healthy human. At least, this is the only way science has done it so far. Taking oral pharmaceutical probiotics or changing the alimentary regimen, isn’t possible to recover the balanced bacterial community needed in the colon.

    This isn’t a secret and the reason because Fecal Transplants have emerged.

    Jorge.

    #89206

    Floggi
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    Okay.

    But what are “pharmaceutical probiotics”?
     

    #89215

    Bucephalus
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    yes, a good example of what Jorge is talking about is, that you can cure C. Diff with fecal implants, but you can’t cure it with probiotics.

    #89234

    Floggi
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    I know that Jorge states this.

    I’m just wondering what the difference could be between normal probiotics and “pharmaceutical probiotics”.
     

    #89242

    Bucephalus
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    I think he is saying that “normal” probiotics is natural, human fecal probiotics.
    What did you take it to mean when you first disagreed with him at the top of this thread?

    #89243

    Bucephalus
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    Quite strange really. First you say we need pharmaceutical probiotics, then later on you declare that you don’t know what he is talking about when he says “pharmaceutical probiotics”. Interesting.

    #89246

    Floggi
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    Eh, no. At least, it’s not what I intended to say.

    What I wanted to say was that fecal probiotics are an addition to the existing set of treatments. The existing set includes both antibiotics and current probiotics, and also diets.
     

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