Candida Immune Complexes and Antibodies Test

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  • #77789

    orka1998
    Participant
    Topics: 53
    Replies: 673

    I was looking for these tests in my country (ref: http://www.healthremedies.com/candida_immune_complexes_and_antibodies.html) but I found only one lab that does part of it (Candida Antibody – IgG, Candida Antibody – IgA and Candida Antibody – IgM). Since I have to pay for it privately, my questions are following:

    1. What am I getting out of testing only these three?
    2. Is a test complete if I don’t have the Candida Immune Complex tested for?
    3. Does this prove that my candida is systemic or just that I have an overgrowth somewhere?

    I did some reading on it and to me it seems that these three would prove that my candida is systemic, but I am worried about the language barrier and that I perhaps don’t understand it well enough so this is why I am asking for someone else’s opinion.

    The articles I read are the following:

    http://biocenterlab.org/tests/profiles/candida.shtml
    http://www.vrp.com/test-kits/candida-antibodies
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDL/is_1_8/ai_n18611635/

    I will try to “beat” ELISA testing out of my doctor, but in case I don’t I must go private and in that case I can only do the antibody ones.

    Thanks in advance for your help in deciphering all this!

    Arijana

    #77791

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    orka1998 wrote: I was looking for these tests in my country (ref: http://www.healthremedies.com/candida_immune_complexes_and_antibodies.html) but I found only one lab that does part of it (Candida Antibody – IgG, Candida Antibody – IgA and Candida Antibody – IgM). Since I have to pay for it privately, my questions are following:

    1. What am I getting out of testing only these three?
    2. Is a test complete if I don’t have the Candida Immune Complex tested for?
    3. Does this prove that my candida is systemic or just that I have an overgrowth somewhere?

    I did some reading on it and to me it seems that these three would prove that my candida is systemic, but I am worried about the language barrier and that I perhaps don’t understand it well enough so this is why I am asking for someone else’s opinion.

    The articles I read are the following:

    http://biocenterlab.org/tests/profiles/candida.shtml
    http://www.vrp.com/test-kits/candida-antibodies
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0FDL/is_1_8/ai_n18611635/

    I will try to “beat” ELISA testing out of my doctor, but in case I don’t I must go private and in that case I can only do the antibody ones.

    Thanks in advance for your help in deciphering all this!

    Arijana

    Arijana,
    I am almost sure your candida isn’t systemic. Candida Immune Complexes in blood is the best test available to confirm an intestinal overgrowth.
    The test looks for present antibody, antigen, and fragments of complement of the candida cell wall circulating in the blood. These fragments is the highly valuable part in this test.
    The antibodies panel isn’t reliable because the same immune suppression candida cause and because normal people can show a positive since candida lives in most of us normally.
    Jorge.

    #77800

    Able900
    Spectator
    Topics: 92
    Replies: 4811

    Arijana, I completely agree with Jorge in this situation. When a person has systematic Candida, there are usually several other factors at play such as immunosuppression.

    An important fact to consider is, if you did not have systematic Candida when you started your treatment, it’s extremely doubtful (though perhaps not impossible) that you would have developed it during your treatment unless you weren’t following the treatment as described.

    Since systematic Candida spreads throughout the body through the bloodstream, it will naturally infest and affect the vital organs such as the brain. This in turn causes such maladies as meningitis and involves the central nervous system. Other organs affected are the heart and kidneys. If the heart is affected, this causes endocarditis, the symptoms of this include rather sever heart palpitations, high fever, heart murmurs, an enlarged spleen and eventually congestive heart failure. When the kidneys are affected it can lead to nephritis. This of course will often lead to kidney failure. The symptoms of this include cloudy and/or bloody urine, a low urine output, edema of extremities, severe pain in the loin area, kidney inflammation, and almost constant severe pain on one side of the body between the last rib and hip.

    As you might guess, it’s usually necessary for people who are suffering from systematic Candida to be hospitalized or certainly hospital bound. They are extremely weak and sick people.

    Basing my opinion on your posts such as this statement, “Even though I feel much better than I have since this whole candida thing started…” and this one as well back on March 22, “I don’t really have official diagnosis but they did find candida species in my stool 25%” I can say again, I don’t think that systematic Candida is one of your problems.

    Arijana, I am convinced that when you concentrate on additional problems such as systematic Candida, in your mind, you’re taking your situation backwards instead of forwards. Think instead about the future when you’re cured of Candida overgrowth; about how much you’ve improved in the time you’ve treated your infestation and about the die-of f symptoms that you’ve experienced. Die-off symptoms are a definite sign of moving towards a cure, and not a sign of approaching systematic Candida.

    “Think well.”

    Able

    #77825

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    Check out this video by Dr. Mcoomb’s:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri2oNJ_Ea8I&list=UUR_D0JerLjp–Owbxn8ksxw&index=8&feature=plcp

    You will want to do a stool test and combine it with other tests and your medical history. Microbiology profile.

    -raster

    #77844

    orka1998
    Participant
    Topics: 53
    Replies: 673

    Able900 wrote:
    Arijana, I completely agree with Jorge in this situation. When a person has systematic Candida, there are usually several other factors at play such as immunosuppression.

    An important fact to consider is, if you did not have systematic Candida when you started your treatment, it’s extremely doubtful (though perhaps not impossible) that you would have developed it during your treatment unless you weren’t following the treatment as described.

    Since systematic Candida spreads throughout the body through the bloodstream, it will naturally infest and affect the vital organs such as the brain. This in turn causes such maladies as meningitis and involves the central nervous system. Other organs affected are the heart and kidneys. If the heart is affected, this causes endocarditis, the symptoms of this include rather sever heart palpitations, high fever, heart murmurs, an enlarged spleen and eventually congestive heart failure. When the kidneys are affected it can lead to nephritis. This of course will often lead to kidney failure. The symptoms of this include cloudy and/or bloody urine, a low urine output, edema of extremities, severe pain in the loin area, kidney inflammation, and almost constant severe pain on one side of the body between the last rib and hip.

    As you might guess, it’s usually necessary for people who are suffering from systematic Candida to be hospitalized or certainly hospital bound. They are extremely weak and sick people.

    Basing my opinion on your posts such as this statement, “Even though I feel much better than I have since this whole candida thing started…” and this one as well back on March 22, “I don’t really have official diagnosis but they did find candida species in my stool 25%” I can say again, I don’t think that systematic Candida is one of your problems.

    Arijana, I am convinced that when you concentrate on additional problems such as systematic Candida, in your mind, you’re taking your situation backwards instead of forwards. Think instead about the future when you’re cured of Candida overgrowth; about how much you’ve improved in the time you’ve treated your infestation and about the die-of f symptoms that you’ve experienced. Die-off symptoms are a definite sign of moving towards a cure, and not a sign of approaching systematic Candida.

    “Think well.”

    Able

    Hi Able,

    I wasn’t really trying to prove that I have systemic candida, but wanted to find a way to prove to myself and others that I have it. All I have is that stool sample with candida in it, but nobody seems to be worried about it and it is getting ignored by doctors.

    I really am trying to stay positive, but sometimes I can’t help myself and worry. I worry because I diagnosed myself and treat myself and I doubt myself sometimes. I keep going into these cycles of not feeling well at all and the famous “sick all over” feelings. I feel great for about a week (and great means I can function compared to a shadow of a woman I was three months ago, I could barely walk, so I get really excited about just being well enough) and then one day it feels like my body is crashing on all the different levels. I get extremely cold, low temp, pains, muscle cramps, weak etc. I take all these supplements (vit c, e, b – doc’s prescription, a, d3, cal, mag, zinc, Swedish bitters, milk thistle, molybdenum, ginkgo – doc’s prescription) but it feels as though none of it sticks. Also, food I’m eating feels like it just goes through me (green or yellow stools often loose and food not digested well). Often it feels I don’t eat enough but my stomach can’t take more food. I doubt that I don’t eat enough, but it just feels that way. It seems that I also have a newly found heartburn (possibly my chest pains are from this, but still don’t have diagnosis there yet) since starting the diet. I had acid problems when young, but afterwards I only had it while pregnant and usually could eat stones before treatment. Now my stomach often doesn’t like foods I used to eat and was happy to eat (the healthy diet I had before having kids). I had to draw back from salads because I could not digest that much raw fiber (again my guess as a lot of things I do these days). Eggs were fine for a while but now seem to not go down well either. So I was forced to go back to some meat and fish for protein and reduce eggs. This was the reason I introduced oat bran also, that and the fact that I cannot handle coconut bread. I occasionally eat quinoa (about a cup to two per week), tried millet but seem not to be able to handle it although I was fine with it at the beginning, buckwheat in bread or cooked grains.

    I am on third month of the treatment and currently not taking antifungals (I tried mild ones like Candida Clear and had to stop as weird stuff was happening so I chickened out and pulled back yet again). Other people are taking coconut oil by spoons and spoons and tons of other antifungals. My coconut oil is sitting in the cupboard and I am afraid to touch it. I am so weak that at times it is difficult to drive (such as today, my leg was cramping like I was running a marathon and not pushing on a clutch). I can’t and don’t want to have any die-off as I will not be able to get to and from work, not mentioning chase down two screaming girls.

    Given, my dizziness is gone in the last month, and on the last checkup the doc reduced drugs for balance (inner ear disorder). I believe that disorder was caused by candida somehow since it improved while I am on the diet. I am hoping that will get corrected and heal completely once I am rid of candida which I cannot seem to be able to do.

    For a while I did really well, I got good color back in my face from the gray that I was before and managed to stay at the same weight (didn’t manage to gain any back, but at least I was not losing any either). Because I was feeling better my mood was almost like before this sickness took over and I was laughing and joking, what I always enjoyed doing and was famous for it everywhere I went. But last week it started to get worse again. I am turning pale again, dark circles are coming back, I am getting weaker, no strength, there is this sensation in muscles like they are not really mine but borrowed, have weird aches throughout the body from organs to limbs or a single spot on my head, my skin is dry and flaky again, lump in the throat is back, coughing up mucous again, thick white mucous in my nose again (and stuffed up nose), my hands started developing all kinds of weird colors I never experienced before, I am loosing appetite, and this coldness is killing me as if it’s in my bones, 20 degrees C and I am shivering like it’s sub 0. The things I’ve added past two weeks: started Candida Clear prior week and increased to full dose last week (two Vcaps am and two pm), yoghurt (which I finished that one tub and decided to leave out again in case it is the culprit), celery stalks (had only root before), meat/fish once daily (I know what you are going to say, but eggs were killing me really, I had very little red meat, and more fish such as mackerel or catfish, chicken and turkey), one day I had some tahini over my meat (though it caused some die-off or reaction so I did not have it for two weeks)… That’s all I can remember (I also concluded that with brain fog I should probably have a diary of my treatment and food because I forget most of the time).

    I keep reading that die-off should be cleared in about 2-4 weeks, but I seem to get into die-off for three months already and I’m not even treating myself aggressively. So I started to doubt if it is a die-off or something else is wrong with me. I probably should not do that, but I just cannot help myself. It is so confusing!

    Perhaps I made some mistakes in my diet. Perhaps I should review my diet and eliminate more food items, but I cannot seem to find energy to get through my day and this is the only problem with me going more aggressive with the diet. I don’t know how to describe how I feel, but it feels as though my body is telling me that it’s not getting enough nutrients and something else is wrong.

    I am so sorry that I am rambling here and setting a tone which is not quite positive, but I am getting tired of this both physically and mentally. I used to be so tough all my life, independent, confident and could pretty much do anything I set my mind to. I was never a crybaby. I was a second child and learned to fend for myself as my brother was a star player (don’t mind it at all when I grew up), and I learned early on not to be a crybaby. I would come home with my knees beaten to the bone without a single tear, then my grandmother would pour homemade brandy on the wound and I would not make a sound. I was always the tough one among my friends, in my ex marriage… Now I am asking myself if someone switched my brain out while I was sleeping one night.
    I was raising these girls by myself and was so happy with what I had and they could not see me if I was not smiling (my principle was to teach these kids to always smile and did not allow gloomy faces around them). We were going out for walks almost every day the weather allowed us, we were going to parks, to picnics, often just three of us if nobody else was available to tag along. Most people were dreading going anywhere with a single child, but I could be out with the two of them within minutes on a single call and was always glad to go anywhere. Then this hit me last year and I changed into a person I really dislike. Kids keep asking me if I am OK, why am I mad (even though I am not, but obviously my face is in some mode they don’t understand), when will I be well, and they mimic most of my symptoms which adds to my confusion as I must decipher if they are really sick or just copy me. And first time in my life I find it so, so hard to do just ordinary things such as keep the house clean and take care of my kids and myself. Not even going to mention work and how fortunate I am to have understanding management which appreciates me, but how long will that last I wonder.

    I really don’t think I am depressed (but I do have a feeling doctors think so all the time because of my life situation I must be in their book) and I was never prone to stress (I don’t get upset over things I cannot change and always look for good/positive and leave negative away from me) as I am not the type, never was, and I still want to do everything I did before, just don’t have physical strength to do it, not mental. Once I finish all the medical tests I am in process of doing for months (started before the treatment) and if those don’t show anything, and I am not improved in the next month or two, then there is nothing else for me than go to the psychiatrist and ask for help!

    Thanks to everyone “listening” to my little vent here!

    Arijana

    #77845

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    It takes time. I had die-off for more than a year. This is a long battle for most of us. Remember, the overgrowth isn’t the same in everybody.
    Jorge.

    #77846

    orka1998
    Participant
    Topics: 53
    Replies: 673

    raster wrote: Check out this video by Dr. Mcoomb’s:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri2oNJ_Ea8I&list=UUR_D0JerLjp–Owbxn8ksxw&index=8&feature=plcp

    You will want to do a stool test and combine it with other tests and your medical history. Microbiology profile.

    -raster

    Thanks raster!

    Arijana

    #77848

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    Hello Arijana,

    I hear what you are saying and it is a big struggle. It’s been hard for me and nearly everyone else I am sure.

    The digestive problems you are mentioning are pretty normal. I am having them too and it is quite upsetting to see undigested food coming out of your stool. Part of the problem lies in not chewing your food enough (and I’ve posted that before) but the other part has to do with your bodies inability to digest food. Its just the way things are when you have candida and I wish I could aid you with digestion tips; I say keep on trucking and things will get better.

    Relating to this, candida causes certain nodes in your body to not function properly. Thats why we aren’t getting as much energy and nutrients out of the food we eat as we want and thats why we are rather tired as well. Its a persistent problem that is difficult to reverse; you just need to kill the candida so that that these nodes free up and function normally.

    I had a big argument with my good friend over the weekend for over an hour about whether or not I have candida overgrowth. He’s like “well it could be some other kind of health problem that has caused this” and I’m like hell no; there is nothing else out there that causes a white tongue, indigestion, leaky gut, allergies, etc. Its a flora imbalance and I cannot pop a pill to cure it. I then went on about the downsides to taking antibiotics and he absolutely didn’t believe me that there was any downside. Its very tough to convince others; the best tool to use is to educate yourself on this problem. Explain to others that when they prescribe antibiotics, they are not useful for fighting fungal infections.

    Dr. Mccomb’s is good listen and has a lot of information about candida if you want to learn:

    http://www.mccombsplan.com/new/media_center/index.php

    I don’t follow his plan but feel that he is right on about a lot of the things he says.

    The diet alone won’t cure you, so eventually you will have to bite the bullet and take some probiotics and antifungals. If you start with just 1-2 drops/spoonfuls of antifungals per day, eventually it won’t cause much die off. Then increase to 3-4 drops/spoonfuls and tough it out as much as you can…and slowly increase to where 25 drops/spoonfuls don’t do anything. It will take a long time potentially, but it’ll get the numbers down. Thats when the healing can really begin because it is not nearly as systematic as before.

    You need to do as much as possible to get those toxins out of the body so that they don’t tax the liver and kidney too much; molybdenum does this but there are other options as well.

    -raster

    #77894

    orka1998
    Participant
    Topics: 53
    Replies: 673

    raster wrote: Hello Arijana,

    I hear what you are saying and it is a big struggle. It’s been hard for me and nearly everyone else I am sure.

    The digestive problems you are mentioning are pretty normal. I am having them too and it is quite upsetting to see undigested food coming out of your stool. Part of the problem lies in not chewing your food enough (and I’ve posted that before) but the other part has to do with your bodies inability to digest food. Its just the way things are when you have candida and I wish I could aid you with digestion tips; I say keep on trucking and things will get better.

    Relating to this, candida causes certain nodes in your body to not function properly. Thats why we aren’t getting as much energy and nutrients out of the food we eat as we want and thats why we are rather tired as well. Its a persistent problem that is difficult to reverse; you just need to kill the candida so that that these nodes free up and function normally.

    I had a big argument with my good friend over the weekend for over an hour about whether or not I have candida overgrowth. He’s like “well it could be some other kind of health problem that has caused this” and I’m like hell no; there is nothing else out there that causes a white tongue, indigestion, leaky gut, allergies, etc. Its a flora imbalance and I cannot pop a pill to cure it. I then went on about the downsides to taking antibiotics and he absolutely didn’t believe me that there was any downside. Its very tough to convince others; the best tool to use is to educate yourself on this problem. Explain to others that when they prescribe antibiotics, they are not useful for fighting fungal infections.

    Dr. Mccomb’s is good listen and has a lot of information about candida if you want to learn:

    http://www.mccombsplan.com/new/media_center/index.php

    I don’t follow his plan but feel that he is right on about a lot of the things he says.

    The diet alone won’t cure you, so eventually you will have to bite the bullet and take some probiotics and antifungals. If you start with just 1-2 drops/spoonfuls of antifungals per day, eventually it won’t cause much die off. Then increase to 3-4 drops/spoonfuls and tough it out as much as you can…and slowly increase to where 25 drops/spoonfuls don’t do anything. It will take a long time potentially, but it’ll get the numbers down. Thats when the healing can really begin because it is not nearly as systematic as before.

    You need to do as much as possible to get those toxins out of the body so that they don’t tax the liver and kidney too much; molybdenum does this but there are other options as well.

    -raster

    Hi raster,

    I am taking probiotics and drink kefir, but every time I try to take any antifungals (weak ones so far) I just cannot handle it. I am taking molybdenum and milk thistle, drinking three lemon waters per day, but since I am so cold all the time, I don’t even break a sweat having a long hot shower. I am drinking nettle leaf tea two to three times a day. There is not much else I can do to detox and I need for the die-off to calm down before I can cause more of the same. This is why I pull back on antifungals. I would bite the bullet but I do not want to cause damage to my kidneys and liver so if I am under a die-off while taking molybdenum than how bad would it be if I added serious antifungals on top of it? I don’t know why molybdenum does not clear the die-off symptoms and to me the only logical explanation is that either my infestation is so bad and there is way too much candida dying or those symptoms are not die-off but something else. Or maybe I am doing all this wrong regardless of doing so much reading and asking here on the forum.

    I stopped the antifungal again for three days and waiting to see if symptoms reduce. I am a bit less cold, I didn’t have those Rheinhard’s syndrome like attacks, but the weakness, muscle cramps, stomach aches, chest pains, heartburn are still there and constant. Now, I did not end up in bed like first few times without molybdenum but I don’t even know how much molybdenum works? Isn’t it supposed to get rid of all or most of the die-off symptoms and not just make it slightly bearable and keep you out of bed?

    I am sorry for constant negativity, I am not like this usually, but I am in a bad place and looking for information from people that got through this already as I don’t really know what am I supposed to feel and what I am experiencing seems to not really match to descriptions here and other people’s experiences.

    I’ve always believed more in natural ways of healing, but perhaps western medicine messed me up since there you have a test, diagnosis and then some way of healing it. Here I just feel like I am chasing something in the dark and since it’s not really seem to be working the way it’s supposed to be working.

    I think I need to just pull myself together and reanalyze my situation and see how I can modify my regimen to improve. I will drop the Candida Clear as it may have thinned my blood (this is another struggle of mine, had to reduce vit C to 1g because of bruises, those show up without injury when my blood is too thin, getting my blood drawn today to see if it is OK now) and try taking coconut oil instead.

    Thanks for your responses, I do really appreciate it.

    Arijana

    #77895

    orka1998
    Participant
    Topics: 53
    Replies: 673

    dvjorge wrote: It takes time. I had die-off for more than a year. This is a long battle for most of us. Remember, the overgrowth isn’t the same in everybody.
    Jorge.

    Thank you Jorge. I guess mine is either worse than most or I need to see what I am doing wrong. I just thought that after three months die-off will go down and I will be able to start antifungals. I will try to go more strict with my diet and go from there. Hopefully I will manage to do so. I guess my problem is that perhaps the die-off feels like I am not getting enough food and since it takes away energy I have a hard time functioning in my busy life.

    Arijana

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