A setback (for me)…

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  • #74060

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    Well, I have been on the strict forum diet since last May (2011). I have a blog post on the forum that mentions my progress as I go through this journey…

    Well, about 3-4 months ago I would say that I was at my “peak.” I felt like I was fighting this sucker off really well, and I basically had no symptoms. Since then, I decided to go into phase 2 because I felt that I was “strong enough” to fight off candida and I was sick of my phase 1 foods/diet. I was on phase 1 for 4-5 months or so.

    It has worked for me very well, I was able to reintroduce black/red rice (2-3x per week), potatoes (2x per week), green apples (1-2x per week), rice crackers, and fresh almond butter to my diet without any reactions or symptoms this whole time. I even could tolerate the occasional “hot spices” such as paprika with no symptoms. I finally could handle regular salad dressing (just for lunch) which contains white vinegar, sugar, etc (kraft ingredients). I never got a reaction to it either. I was allergic to all of these foods before phase 2, but I felt no symptoms whatsoever once I started to eat them. I was like “yes” I am beating this sucker and I can eat more foods! Yay me!

    Then last night, I decided to put some paprika on my chicken and it gave me a bad “leaky gut” reaction. I haven’t tried it for a few weeks, but it was concerning to say the least. I used to have it during phase 1, but I haven’t had a reaction to it for over 4 months. Today, I ate my rice cakes with almond butter like usual and also had a “leaky gut” reaction (a little different than normal, but included a mucous cough, stomach girgling, and a “hot” feeling throughout my body like I did some exercise.)

    I just would like to caution everyone about phase 2. While it may seem like heaven when compared to phase 1, it can slowly set you back if you overindulge. Phase 2 items should be eaten very occasionally (like once a week or less) for a long period of time so that candida doesn’t have a chance to come back…

    I am pretty bummed that my leaky gut is returning and worsening. I am going back to phase 1 and I likely will switch out salad dressings for lunch. I am sure this happened to many people out there and just wanted to share my story so that others don’t make the same mistakes.

    -raster

    #74063

    jereseib
    Member
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 32

    Hang in there. I started the diet almost a year ago and made significant progress and thought I had cured myself. I also started over-indulging in phase 2 items and due to alot of stress and anxiety problems from work I feel like I am back to square one now.
    ):

    #74077

    Allira
    Member
    Topics: 8
    Replies: 40

    That sucks. How are you with nightshades?(tomatoes, eggplant/aubergine, capsicums etc) I see you eat potato which is a nightshade, but perhaps you have an intolerance to the nightshade family (including paprika – I didn’t realise this was a nightshade until recently!) I react to tomatoes and capsicums (and probably paprika) but seemed ok with potato (pre diet of course!) and aubergine. Avoiding all nightshades now though as they aren’t meant to be good for psoriasis / ezcema.

    Hope you get back on track soon!

    #74080

    Thomas
    Member
    Topics: 71
    Replies: 605

    Hi mate,
    oh man, how I can feel for you. I only had last week 4 wonderful days without symptoms and didn’t know why I got them. I didn’t change a thing and thought a miracle had happened. After the 4th day I started to trust again that I too am allowed to feel good. And then ….bam….it hit me again.. and I dont know why. The shit is back and I got very sad.

    But how terrible it must feel for you. After 4 month enjoying the freedom of flying high without symptoms and than pressed back into the old mud of body symptoms.

    Now you have to go back on the horse again as quickly as you can and start riding again.

    I wish you all the best in the world and hope you recover quickly!

    yours
    Thomas

    #74096

    CT
    Member
    Topics: 12
    Replies: 63

    Sorry to hear that you are suffering again hope it doesn’t get you too down!

    Do you recommend avoiding spices in general while in phase one? Or did you avoid them in phase one because they were not personally good for you? Just wanted to know because I have still been using cayenne pepper, cumin seeds and garam masala and I am wondering whether I should cut them out if they feed the candida.

    #74097

    Lucylu
    Member
    Topics: 31
    Replies: 345

    Ah dammit Raster, what a bloody nuisance! You must be disgusted. Would you mind sharing a little more about what your diet has evolved into over recent months please? I’m teetering on the brink of stage 2 but am only really trying just adventurous stage 1 items yet plus a couple of fairly bland new items like potato once a week, cassava twice, wild rice a couple times? I still make sure I include plenty antifungal, prebiotic & probiotic foods every day (at every meal, really) and am not ready to relax that. Have you done so? What does your daily diet look like these days? Also your probiotic & antifungal regime? Have you eased off on that?

    Really fascinated to see why this has happened to you… as I’m a couple months behind you and doing quite well.

    Hope you get back on Thomas’ horse quickly and move on…

    Lx

    (Like CT I’m curious about the Paprika too. I wouldn’t have considered this a test item but have only used it a couple times anyway)

    #74101

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    CT wrote: Do you recommend avoiding spices in general while in phase one? Or did you avoid them in phase one because they were not personally good for you? Just wanted to know because I have still been using cayenne pepper, cumin seeds and garam masala and I am wondering whether I should cut them out if they feed the candida.

    As with anything you should tread gently and test your own reactions. It’s possible to develop a sensitivity to just about any food when your guts are in bad shape, but many spices, like fennel and cumin, can actually aid digestion, which will help your progress (as well as adding some flavour!). Keep in mind that reactions can be mild and delayed by up to 48-hours.

    Allira was referring to an issue with nightshades (think potato, bell pepper, paprika, chilli, aubergine and tomato). They contain natural pesticides known as alkaloids, which are harmful to nerve cells and can cause inflammation in high enough doses. Only trace amounts are found in nightshades, but sensitive individuals claim to have strong reactions to them. You can find a lot of anecdotal evidence about people recovering from arthritis after giving them up. There’s no research to verify or deny this yet, as far as I’m aware.

    For what it’s worth, my theory is that the nightshade issue is just like any other sensitivity/allergy, and in many cases is probably more closely linked to poor digestive health. How many arthritis sufferers making these claims do you think give up sugar, caffeine, alcohol and junk fats along with their tomatoes? I’m sure many of them could resume eating them if they healed any potential issues like leaky gut.

    #74102

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    Just to restate on things, I can tolerate potatoes just fine, the only reaction I get is a mucuous one. I get a mucuous (cough) reaction for a lot of foods in general because I am a smoker, and there is flem in my lungs. But I can tell when its a lot harder/stronger than usual, and I’ve been getting that lately from the rice cakes.

    As far as paprika, its just the “leaky gut” burn feeling I get. It used to be much worse, so its barely anything.

    I would say that phase 2 probably set me back 5-10% over 4 months, its barely noticeable. I just am not progressing as much as I thought and my leaky gut has gotten worse.

    However, I am healing other ailments other than leaky gut. I am taking some skin related vitamins and parasite eliminating supplements that will completely eliminate my ring worm. This would be a great achievement in itself because I’ve delt with this for over a year. I’ve had it throughout college and high school as well, and as the parasites die, I am feeling a ton better overall!

    I’ve also had a nighttime urination problem and am taking min-chex and min-tran (iodine supplements) to strengthen my thyroid…this would be a great success to get over because it’ll help me sleep much more solidly in general.

    I went to the dentist recently and had no cavities! I am taking magnesium chloride to purify my blood, improve digestion, and this has helped me have no cavities. Last year I had 1-2 cavities, and the year before I had 9 cavities (when I was very ill)…huge cost savings by not needing to get dental work done.

    Thanks for the comments folks, but I am just going to have to work harder to heal leaky gut. I am going to get some cinnamon pearls soon, and I think I will start adding inulin to my yogurt (I believe its tasteless).

    -raster

    #74106

    Able900
    Spectator
    Topics: 92
    Replies: 4811

    Raster, buddy, man I hate this – I really do. I really thought you were on the verge of announcing that you were completely cured.

    I like to break things down into sections when looking for the cause of a problem. So looking at your problem as essentially the return of the leaky gut symptoms, the first thing I would consider is what caused the syndrome in the first place; as you know, the answer to that is the Candida infestation itself since the fungal organism grows roots much like a plant, and the roots literally grow into and through the intestinal wall searching for food. The roots break completely through the intestinal lining causing permeability better known as leaky gut syndrome.
    With the original cause in mind, it seems logical to assume that the same thing would cause the return of the syndrome once it has disappeared. So next would be to search for something in your routine that would cause the Candida to reappear in a strong enough force to reinstate the leaky gut syndrome.

    In reading the description of your diet in this respect, what stood out for me was rice and potatoes. You wrote, “I was able to reintroduce black/red rice (2-3x per week), potatoes (2x per week) … rice crackers.”

    That looks like a total of at least 4 to 5 days out of seven with a serving of starch in your diet. If I were a betting man, which I am, I’d bet a big chunk on these two foods being the basic source of the problem.
    The thing is, just because you didn’t receive a reaction at that time from these two foods doesn’t mean that they weren’t slowly feeding the Candida remaining in your system. Sometimes a relapse can happen suddenly after the food is eaten, and other times it can take time in making its effect known.

    Believe it or not, I’ve still not introduced any type of rice or potato to my diet, and I don’t plan on doing so at all. They’re foods we all can live without from now on and still remain perfectly healthy, probably even healthier than with them in our diet.

    Before I would add another food to my diet, I have to ask myself, why would I want to eat this? For sheer enjoyment? They’re both as bland as anything I’ve ever eaten unless smothered in “something” to give them even a hint of flavor, so I just don’t see the point. I’d much prefer a big serving of garbanzo beans or tasty black-eye peas myself; and beans are something that I still have at least once a day with no hint of a problem.
    I hate mentioning this now, but as you probably know, I never added either potatoes or rice to the allowed foods list for this very reason; the way I see it, I may as well add cupcakes on a semi-regular basis if I’m going to eat starches on more days than not. I also never added either of these to phase 2 of the diet for the same reasons. I just don’t see why either would need to be on a health-oriented diet.

    I really don’t think it’ll take long for you to get back to where you were, that is unless the symptoms grow worse in the meantime instead of better; so go for it with all you’ve got and prove to yourself that you can do this again easier than you managed the first time.

    Good luck.
    Able

    #74108

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    Thats exactly what I thought able, so thats why I am cutting those suckers. I might continue the black/red rice 2-3x per week but won’t be eating rice cakes and potatoes 7 days a week combined. I mostly wanted something easy and filling for lunch (rice cakes) and a weight gaining food item on the weekends (potatoes); I can do without them and will look for alternatives.

    I am thinking celery sticks with almond butter as a good replacement for the rice cakes and buckwheat as a replacement for rice.

    -raster

    #74110

    Able900
    Spectator
    Topics: 92
    Replies: 4811

    If you consider yourself “cured” from your Candida overgrowth, doesn’t that mean that you can have a diet like your typical North Americaner and not experience symptoms? If not, it’s not so much a cure as it is a lifelong-prevention or a workaround.

    Using the very same logic, you could say that once you’ve had the flu and you’re now cured, then you should never have to worry about contracting the flu again, otherwise, you can’t really say you’re cured. Is this what you mean? Would you allow someone with the flu to drink from your glass or eat with your fork just because you’ve been ‘cured’? This is the logic of your question.

    So with having a Candida infestation, if you use that logic, then you have to also agree that you were never in a ‘cured’ state before you contracted the infestation since the diet you’re talking about going back to is the very one that contributed to the infestation in the first place.
    How can you expect a diet that contributed to a problem once not to do the same thing a second or third time? Because that’s basically what you’re saying.

    Do you know why our bodies become susceptible to repeat infections after we get one? (e.g. Athlete’s Foot)?

    I think once you have an infestation as powerful as a Candida overgrowth it leaves your body in a completely different condition than when it was originally contracted. In most respects, most people are in better health in one respect because hopefully we’ve rebuilt our immune system during the treatment, but the overgrowth (I believe) leaves the intestines damaged to a degree that makes them susceptible to the same type of infestation for an indefinite period of time. That’s my theory by the way, I didn’t find that in a research journal.

    Able

    #74113

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1369

    MagnuM wrote: Hey Able, I have a question. If you consider yourself “cured” from your Candida overgrowth, doesn’t that mean that you can have a diet like your typical North Americaner and not experience symptoms? If not, it’s not so much a cure as it is a lifelong-prevention or a workaround.

    Do you know why our bodies become susceptible to repeat infections after we get one? (e.g. Athlete’s Foot)?

    I will comment on this thread.
    There isn’t any reason to think you always will have a relapse. Food doesn’t cause the fungal overgrowth. You have to think there are millions eating a typical American diet without suffering candida. Also, the fact you have had an intestinal fungal overgrowth one time doesn’t mean it will be there permanently if you eradicate it. You, or anybody who take long antibiotic rounds, have a compromised immune system that has allowed candida tolerance can get this infection one time or more until the root cause don’t be correct.

    A diet plus natural supplements is a very common web protocol that only deal with junior cases, if so. I know this fact since I began to battle it. This kind of protocols are poor when candida is severe and were designed with lucrative ideas generated by those who want to make money with sick people. It give symptom control and people believe they are cured when not.
    What I have learned about this syndrome tell me this need a more aggressive treatment individually thought. There isn’t a formula that work for everyone.

    You need to attack candida with all the weapons and need to unload the immune system. This is the most important part of the treatment because who have worked in this part have reached a complete cure.
    Multiples therapies with fungicidal antifungals, a very smart diet, chelation when necessary, low doses of antigens to re-activate the immune system, and immune support are necessary. In many cases, fecal transplants may be necessary to recover indigenous human flora destroyed by antibiotic use.

    There isn’t any reason to think you need to be following an anticandida diet for the rest of your life, neither to think you have to renounce to potatoes, rice, bread, or anything like that. There are people who had this syndrome (even very severe cases) eating what they like, drinking beers, ice cream, desserts, etc and enjoying a perfect health. CRC can be corrected and cured. There are testimonies of people who have done it, even the words of the same Dr. Orian Truss when said this syndrome can be corrected. What you need is to be OPEN to a more aggressive treatment considering enemas, chelation, fecal transplants, antifungal drug combinations, sometimes Rx are necessary, and immune support. If you address all this with discipline and perseverance, the cure will knock your door.
    Jorge.

    #74123

    WilliamHolst
    Member
    Topics: 42
    Replies: 72

    So it is possible to cure yourself and live a normal life again. Ocassionaly having deserts like ice cream, eating out and drink beer once in a while? I mean after a year on the diet, antifungals, continuos use of probiotics?

    #74128

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    MagnuM wrote: a diet like your typical North Americaner

    Is this really something to aim for? It may be considered “normal”, yet it’s the single most important factor in the epidemic of degenerative disease in affluent nations. If you did completely cure candida and return to this diet, you’d soon be worrying about something else that would likely have an even greater impact on your health. A third of Americans have metabolic syndrome!

    I think a cure should mean you’re able to treat yourself once in a while and not stick to such a limited set of foods, but the standard American diet is something that should be forgotten fast. The good thing about the candida diet is that it forces you to adjust your eating habits and lifestyle towards health on a long-term basis, so it’s easier to continue maintaining it, perhaps with the occasional latte and muffin thrown in. It’s gotta be better than slowly falling apart, having a mind like a sieve and looking like crap like the majority of the population now ends up doing.

    #74129

    Thomas
    Member
    Topics: 71
    Replies: 605

    In our discussion we forget that many people feel identified with their state before the infestation as the “normal” state of being. Our memories tell us that when I come back to be normal again I will be happy. Today I cant be happy because I am not back in time where is was not thinking about food and diets and meet with all these sick people worrying about their health all the time.

    In that way it is quite natural that people dream themselves back into a history which in their mind was much better than this here where we are.

    The trouble is only that life is change and we humans dont like that very much. Our rope of happiness is tight to a body back in time where unconsciousness aloud us to eat whatever we wanted and ignorant of what our old diet was doing to our bodies we where happy.

    Today we woke up to a reality which is foreign to us, and it is hard to allow ourself to be happy in these new conditions. We are homesick to the old times.

    What I am only wondering about is Ables statement:

    I think once you have an infestation as powerful as a Candida overgrowth it leaves your body in a completely different condition than when it was originally contracted. In most respects, most people are in better health in one respect because hopefully we’ve rebuilt our immune system during the treatment, but the overgrowth (I believe) leaves the intestines damaged to a degree that makes them susceptible to the same type of infestation for an indefinite period of time.

    I heard that the body is re-building itself. That after about 7 years a heavy smoker has a nice and clean lung again. Even our skeleton is totally changed after 13 years. The liver is renewing given good conditions in a much quicker time. (sorry I forgot) Why should not the intestines are being healed totally providing that we dont harm them all the time?

    cheers
    Thomas

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