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Offline dvjorge  
#1 Posted : Saturday, July 14, 2012 4:05:06 AM(UTC)
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Guys,

I answered a post in Curezone linked to it.

Kefir is a good drink. It is well known by its benefits releasing stomach discomfort , helping the environment of our native flora, and more benefits. I am not against Kefir. I am planning on using it for the rest of my life in the future. ( I don't drink it now )

Please, for the love of god, Kefir ISN'T an antifungal. Kefir DON'T kill candida.

I would like to see a serious scientific article about it.

Kefir has Casein, Lactose, and Yeast. 3 top allergens for CRC sufferers.

Kefir Culture is a combination of bacterial species and yeast species living in perfect harmony ( like McCartney's son Ebony and Ivory )

How is possible that someone think the bacteria present in Kefir kill yeast ?

This is a nonsense spreaded in the web like many other I am tired of mentioning.

If the bacteria present in Kefir are antifungal, how is possible for that bunch of yeast species to live in the Kefir culture ?? This is something that doesn't enter in my mind.

The yeast species living in Kefir killing Candida Albicans ?? Dude. S. Boulardii is one of the most beneficial and anti-pathogenic yeast specie known and studied. S. Boulardii releases a significant amount of Capric Acid ( no Caprylic ) but it only INHIBITS candida growth.

Until the bunch of myths present in the web won't be broken in pieces, candida sufferers will continue their agony.

See the link about Kefir Culture composition. See how many yeast species and bacteria live together, in the same way candida albicans lives in our colon with more than 600 different ones of our own bacteria.

http://www.culturesforhe...position-bacteria-yeast/

Then, explain me how Kefir can kill candida ??

If you bring a reasonable explanation and some scientific study proving it, I may believe it.

Kefir may help to create a favorable environment for our native flora dominates and provides other health benefits.

Kefir ISN'T an antifungal. We need to defend ourselves against the myths.

Jorge.


Edited by user Monday, July 16, 2012 2:15:21 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline benc  
#2 Posted : Saturday, July 14, 2012 4:25:35 AM(UTC)
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dvjorge wrote:
Guys,

I answered a post in Curezone linked to it.

Kefir is a good drink. It is well known by its benefits releasing stomach discomfort , helping the environment of our native flora, and more benefits. I am not against Kefir. I am planning on using it for the rest of my life in the future. ( I don't drink it now )

Please, for the love of god, Kefir ISN'T an antifungal. Kefir DON'T kill candida.

I would like to see a serious scientific article about it.

Kefir has Casein, Lactose, and Yeast. 3 top allergens for CRC sufferers.

Kefir Culture is a combination of bacterial species and yeast species living in perfect harmony ( like McCartney's son Ebony and Ivory )

How is possible that someone think the bacteria present in Kefir kill yeast ?

This is a nonsense spreaded in the web like many other I am tired of mentioning.

If the bacteria present in Kefir are antifungal, how is possible for that bunch of yeast species to live in the Kefir culture ?? This is something that doesn't enter in my mind.

The yeast species living in Kefir killing Candida Albicans ?? Dude. S. Boulardii is one of the most beneficial and anti-pathogenic yeast specie known and studied. S. Boulardii releases a significant amount of Capric Acid ( no Caprylic ) but it only INHIBITS candida growth.

Until the bunch of myths present in the web won't be broken in pieces, candida sufferers will continue their agony.

See the link about Kefir Culture composition. See how many yeast species and bacteria live together, in the same way candida albicans lives in our colon with more than 600 different ones of our own bacteria.

http://www.culturesforhe...position-bacteria-yeast/

Then, explain me how Kefir can kill candida ??

If you bring a reasonable explanation and some scientific study proving it, I may believe it.

Kefir may help to create a favorable environment for our native flora dominates.

Kefir ISN'T an antifungal. We need to defend ourselves against the myths.

Jorge.




Other than stating kefir isn't an antifungal I don't really get the point of the post (no offence).

Are you saying it isn't beneficial to candida?

If so, what about coconut water kefir, that wouldn't contain lactose or casien, just the yeast?
Offline dvjorge  
#3 Posted : Saturday, July 14, 2012 4:34:42 AM(UTC)
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The point of the post is exactly that one, Kefir isn't an antifungal. It is calling your attention about it. Do you know how many times I have read people telling they are killing candida drinking Kefir , and they are experiencing a severe die-off reaction ? This a myth well propagated in the web. Yes, Kefir could be very beneficial for candida. Kefir has some amount of Lactose that may feed candida. No offense, just answering your question.

Kefir is beneficial for your intestinal enviroment. Sorry If I didn't understand your question. I have had to change my mind many times in my learning curve about this syndrome. Who knows how many times I still have to do it. Sorry, many of my posts will contradict things you have as a fact. It happened to me too. I am trying to bring the arguments and elaborate the post in a way you can see it by yourself. You can understand the analogy and see proof. If you find something that help me, bring it. I can be wrong. I am creating a picture where you can think a see the things.

Thanks,

Jorge.

Edited by user Saturday, July 14, 2012 9:43:48 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline benc  
#4 Posted : Saturday, July 14, 2012 5:32:09 AM(UTC)
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dvjorge wrote:
The point of the post is exactly that one, Kefir isn't an antifungal. Do you know how many times I have read people telling they are killing candida drinking Kefir , and they are experiencing a severe die-off reaction. This a myth well propagated in the web. Yes, Kefir could be very beneficial for candida. Kefir has some amount of Lactose that may feed candida. No offense, just answering your question.

Kefir is beneficial for your intestinal enviroment. Sorry If I didn't understand your question. I have had to change my mind many times in my learning curve about this syndrome. Who knows how many times I still have to do it. Sorry, many of my posts will contradict things you have as a fact. It happened to me too. I am trying to bring the arguments and elaborate the post in a way you can see it by yourself. You can understand the analogy and see proof. If you find something that help me, bring it. I can be wrong. I am creating a picture where you can think a see the things.

Thanks,

Jorge.

I appreciate the information & research attached to it.

Someone mentioned on here the fact I was feeling dizzy again after eating yogurt & kefir (for the 1st time, since the early stages) could be due to die off, so I assumed that as a fact.

I drink coconut water kefir & raw goats milk kefir. I would like to think in time I could knock the milk on the head, certainly on a daily basis. But i'm willing to keep going for as long as it takes, I really don't want to go through this all over again.
Offline Javizy  
#5 Posted : Saturday, July 14, 2012 5:36:08 AM(UTC)
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I doubt there's been any such research. Who on Earth would fund studies into kefir as a candidiasis treatment in humans? There are a couple of scraps on PubMed to suggest anti-C. albicans properties [1][2].

Quote:
Brown sugar promoted the greatest antimicrobial activities, producing inhibition halos corresponding to 35 ... mm for Candida albicans ... Different carbon source concentrations and the time of fermentation influenced the size of the inhibition halos of the pathogenic microorganisms.
Quote:
Kefir and its insoluble polysaccharide, kefiran, were both tested for antimicrobial and cicatrizing activities against several bacterial species and Candida albicans ... Both kefir and kefiran showed some activity against all organisms tested

If kefir is capable of supporting indigenous bacteria and lowering colon pH, then "die-off" is a potential possibility, even if it's just endotoxin from other pathogens. There are a bunch of confounders though, like the lactose, casein and yeast that you mentioned, and the endotoxin and lactate from the kefir microbes themselves.

Kefir has also been shown to lower cholesterol, and unlike other infectious microbes, high cholesterol is something that increases candida's pathogenicity. The fat soluble vitamins, minerals and components like lactoferrin that naturally occur in the milk, as well as the additional nutrients like vitamin K2 produced by the LAB, have their own health benefits. People on crazy candida diets don't tend to consume any other source of dairy or nutritiously-dense food in general, so I don't think it's a good idea to encourage further exclusion unless absolutely necessary (dairy allergy, endotoxin sensitivity etc).
Offline dvjorge  
#6 Posted : Saturday, July 14, 2012 7:30:23 AM(UTC)
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Javizy wrote:
I doubt there's been any such research. Who on Earth would fund studies into kefir as a candidiasis treatment in humans? There are a couple of scraps on PubMed to suggest anti-C. albicans properties [1][2].

Quote:
Brown sugar promoted the greatest antimicrobial activities, producing inhibition halos corresponding to 35 ... mm for Candida albicans ... Different carbon source concentrations and the time of fermentation influenced the size of the inhibition halos of the pathogenic microorganisms.
Quote:
Kefir and its insoluble polysaccharide, kefiran, were both tested for antimicrobial and cicatrizing activities against several bacterial species and Candida albicans ... Both kefir and kefiran showed some activity against all organisms tested

If kefir is capable of supporting indigenous bacteria and lowering colon pH, then "die-off" is a potential possibility, even if it's just endotoxin from other pathogens. There are a bunch of confounders though, like the lactose, casein and yeast that you mentioned, and the endotoxin and lactate from the kefir microbes themselves.

Kefir has also been shown to lower cholesterol, and unlike other infectious microbes, high cholesterol is something that increases candida's pathogenicity. The fat soluble vitamins, minerals and components like lactoferrin that naturally occur in the milk, as well as the additional nutrients like vitamin K2 produced by the LAB, have their own health benefits. People on crazy candida diets don't tend to consume any other source of dairy or nutritiously-dense food in general, so I don't think it's a good idea to encourage further exclusion unless absolutely necessary (dairy allergy, endotoxin sensitivity etc).


Javizy,
Native friendly bacteria don't cause die-off either. The relationship candida has with our bacteria in the colon is "competition for space" Bacteria in the colon don't kill candida. You can not live with a killer in the same room. A caw can not live with a lion in the same room. Candida and bacteria are neighbors. They share the same house but different rooms. If the house has 6 rooms, bacteria may live in 5 of them, and candida in 1. Now comes the problem, many things disturb our colonic flora such as drinking chlorinate water for years and mainly taking antibiotics. When this happen, bacteria leaves one of those rooms empty. Then, candida that is an opportunistic expert take the room. Now, bacteria can not come back to there at least you pull out candida with antifungals.
This is more or less the analogy that we need to apply. It is a balance between the yeast and bacteria competing for space and domination. If you are there, I can not be there, but I can not pull you out one time you gained the room.

Bacteria present in Kefir don't have antifungal activity. It is impossible there be around 15 or 20 yeast species living with them in the same matrix (niche)

My view about Kefir is that it is a healthy nutritional drink that contains several bacterial cultures that help to recreate a friendly bacterial environment in the intestines that may help to your native flora to dominate.

The negative part for candida sufferers is the Lactose, Casin, and the Yeast present.

If you don't react to casein, lactose, and yeast, you can drink it considering that you have to ferment your own kefir at home for enough time to allow the culture to consume most of the Lactose. It is impossible to know when this happen, if so. I wrote to Lifeway Kefir makers asking if they can proof their product is Lactose free.
The answer was that they can not list Kefir as a lactose free but as 99% lactose free because there always be some lactose remaining.

At home, giving the culture more time, the risk is probably less. Anyway, it is impossible to keep candida without a grain of food. Some small amount of lactose may don't ruin the treatment.

Probably the benefits overcome the negative part. What people should realize is Kefir isn't an antifungal by any meaning, at least one of the YEAST species present has magical anticandida properties. I doubt that.

Jorge.

Edited by user Saturday, July 14, 2012 9:36:59 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline flailingWcandi  
#7 Posted : Saturday, July 14, 2012 8:36:48 AM(UTC)
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Javizy wrote:
People on crazy candida diets



Great. Now you are calling us crazy. :|
Offline Scooter133  
#8 Posted : Saturday, July 14, 2012 11:35:02 AM(UTC)
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flailingWcandi wrote:
Javizy wrote:
People on crazy candida diets



Great. Now you are calling us crazy. :|



I'm Crazy, My Dr Said so...
Quote:
I honestly believe your approach to the minutia around the exacting specifications of the testosterone replacement any your other health concerns makes a psychological mental health issue more likely.
It seems to fit the criteria for an obsessive compulsive disorder. Of course, I understand you just want to feel better, though would hope you would not continue to focus continued energy around the testosterone.
Regarding the possible psychological diagnoses, it would be back to psychiatry.


So I found another health and wellness person that has run some out of Pocket tests and has found some significant GI issues. Candida is not something I think most Dr's recognize as a 'real' issue. Kind os sad.

I've been on the Candida Diet and drinking a ton of Kefir and other probiotics for a few months now. Had some labs done and when My Dr ask what I I've been doing to get my labs soooo much improved... I really fell like telling him to take a long walk off a short pier...
Offline Thomas  
#9 Posted : Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:02:05 PM(UTC)
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flailingWcandi wrote:
Javizy wrote:
People on crazy candida diets



Great. Now you are calling us crazy. :|


He said crazy candida diets and not crazy people.


If you identify yourself with a diet, what happens if you choose to change your diet?
Will you loose yourself?

You will not. Because you are not a diet.

cheers
Thomas


Offline flailingWcandi  
#10 Posted : Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:09:46 PM(UTC)
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Thomas wrote:

If you identify yourself with a diet, what happens if you choose to change your diet?


Then, just call me "pudding" :-|



Edited by user Saturday, July 14, 2012 2:27:58 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline flailingWcandi  
#11 Posted : Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:11:13 PM(UTC)
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Scooter133 wrote:
I'm Crazy, My Dr Said so...



At least my Dr. didn't call me crazy.....yet :-|

Edited by user Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:35:51 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline flailingWcandi  
#12 Posted : Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:20:29 PM(UTC)
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dvjorge wrote:
The relationship candida has with our bacteria in the colon is "competition for space"


My GP supplied Metagenic's 4-pronged AC protocol included hefty doses of brewers yeast for a similar reason, to take territory away from Candida. OI -> can you believe?

I didn't know any better as it sounded like it made sense at the time. - Do'H - I was literally doubled over in pain feeling like my intestines were being crushed from the inside out, with tears down my cheeks just trying to get through Mass.

Made 3 separate attempts at their protocol, some for weeks at a time before realizing it was crazy and chucking the Metagenics products in the trash.

Can I call Metagenics crazy :-| ?

Edited by user Saturday, July 14, 2012 12:51:43 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Marbro  
#13 Posted : Sunday, July 15, 2012 8:02:01 PM(UTC)
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I see your still in the anti-kefir crusade. Your little stint with store bought kefir was not good enough. lol.


I never looked at kefir as a big anti-fungal. I have not been on the site in awhile but im not sure anyone has.

Kefir is a great probiotic. You may disagree with probiotics being useful while on a Candida diet but I dont. Finding kefir was something I will always be greatful for. I had reactions to it for awhile but now I feel wonderful and I do not use probiotics from pills. I just drink home made kefir and eat foods with live cultures.

I never had to have an enema either. No point in going straight to my butthole for a cure when a reasonable cure is listed right here under the candida diet.

I have come a long ways. My sypmptons of candida is all but gone. Now I just focus on my SD and psoriasis of which there is no real cure. I started introducing more anti-inflamitory foods that I couldnt eat before.. I was already eating blueberries, now I have added shiitake mushrooms, Green Tea, sweet potatoes and I have no reactions. I just keep improving.

Milk kefir is not for everyone. But coconut or water kefir is much more easier to handle. I reccomend it to everyone. It has improved my life. The store bought stuff may help you a little, may be the easier way to get it but It is nothing compared to the real deal.

Good luck folks

Offline Javizy  
#14 Posted : Monday, July 16, 2012 1:52:06 AM(UTC)
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Good to hear you're diversifying your diet with success, Marbro. I hope you can eventually get those skin problems under control. You might find Art Ayers blog interesting if you haven't seen the links around here for it yet.
Offline Flipper  
#15 Posted : Monday, July 16, 2012 12:45:52 PM(UTC)
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I'm finding this all very interesting. I tried making kefir and after a few weeks of stuff that tasted just like spoiled milk I gave up and bought it at a store (grass fed organic) But now my joints started hurting again (that was the first symptom to go when I started the candida diet) so I'm off of kefir now. Hoping I can try it again as some point. I'm thinking the achey joints are due to leaky gut....????

Offline Doggiemama  
#16 Posted : Monday, July 16, 2012 1:55:48 PM(UTC)
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i am having some achy joints but i think its also leaky gut. in fact i think i have alot going on from leaky gut. not sure whats making me achy for sure but my joints do hurt..
Thanks,
DoggieMama
Offline dvjorge  
#17 Posted : Monday, July 16, 2012 2:09:18 PM(UTC)
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Doggiemama wrote:
i am having some achy joints but i think its also leaky gut. in fact i think i have alot going on from leaky gut. not sure whats making me achy for sure but my joints do hurt..



http://www.livestrong.co...joint-inflammation-pain/
Offline Doggiemama  
#18 Posted : Monday, July 16, 2012 10:00:23 PM(UTC)
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thanks dvjorge, but on my allergy testing, I tested negative to allergies to milk. ..so it could be leaky gut related possibly..not sure
Thanks,
DoggieMama
Offline Latka  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, July 17, 2012 1:21:33 AM(UTC)
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Doggiemama: I also tested negative to milk intolerance, but I have since concluded for myself that I have an intolerance nevertherless. I always react strongly to dairy; get swollen (water retention in the body) and also get aches and pains in joints and muscles. So it is obvious that there is inflammation in the body provoked by dairy. Taking kefir (made with milk) for example did not go well at all. I got extremely bloated.

But maybe you are right it might be a leaky gut reaction? I have a leaky gut too. And if it is then here's hoping that one day when the gut is healed dairy will no longer be a problem.
Offline Javizy  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, July 17, 2012 2:32:31 AM(UTC)
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I think IgG tests are just money-making schemes for the labs. They don't hold up under scrutiny as far as I'm aware, but they're marketed well. Most people still consider simple elimination the gold standard. Not that sensitivies necessarily explain Doggiemama's problems, but leaving out yoghurt for a weak is easily enough achieved if it's that much of a concern.
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