What's going on? (SIBO vs Candida)

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  moochpb 5 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #85567

    Angor
    Member
    Topics: 47
    Replies: 136

    First off it would be good to know I’m diagnosed IBS-D. I’ve asked before, since I’m not sure I have SIBO or Candida, and of course, no one in this forum will be able to surely tell. But I just have to ask,

    I notice I can’t tolerate the high fiber – coconut flour, buckwheat, oat bran all makes me super gassy. Same goes for – jerusalem artichoke, broccoli, cabbage, brussels sprouts, cauliflower, avocado and sometimes onions.

    It’s not die-off. Before I was uncertain, now I’m 99% sure (can you ever be 100?). I also found, when I read about SIBO, a question that exactly fits my fiber problem “Do you become more constipated when you increase your fiber intake?” Fiber stops me up but makes me gassy as ….

    What do you think about this? Is it most likeley that candida is causing my intolerance to fiber or SIBO, or … What should I do? I think I might have to alter my diet and try something more suitable for a possible bacterial overgrowth. But I don’t want to eat things that feeds a possible candida overqrowth. So that leaves me with … cucumber. Mmmm.

    For you who don’t know anything about SIBO. It’s a bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine. There the bacteria feeds of carbs and fiber and produces gas and either makes you constipated or the other way around.

    #85574

    Latka
    Member
    Topics: 5
    Replies: 128

    No one can tell you for sure what this is just based on your descriptions. Even doctors often get these things wrong. You will probably have to figure this out yourself. I am also wondering if I may actually have SIBO, even though I initially got diagnosed with Candida. I have been treated for Candida for over a year now and have been gradually getting worse and worse. Often SIBO related digestive problems get misdiagnosed as IBS or as Candida.

    I’ll share my experience and my conclusions if it is of any help: I get what I thought were Candida reactions to a lot of allowed foods while I could easily have sugar and be just fine. It seems to me then that whatever is easily broken down and quickly digested works for me. The problems arise with stuff like fiber that takes longer to break down and that then apparently feeds the bacteria in the small intestine (my guess). Or worse, due to my slowed down transit time, just sits in the gut and ferments. That is why I am now approaching the problem by trying to deal with the constipation and increase the transit time. That means no more fiber actually as that only made things worse. Lots of olive oil, self-fermented sour cream and vegetable juices work for me. I am also addressing the possible lack of digestive entzymes and hydrocloric acid that might be one problem in not digesting foods properly; I do this by taking bitters before eating, or hydrocloric acid tablets with meals. And I am slightly better, though still very bloated.

    Maybe you should just test things for yourself, keep a food diary and note down how you react to foods. figure out the problem that way. Just remember that if you are very constipated and the transit time is slow the food reactions may come a lot later, maybe not before the next day. That is why it is good to test one food item at a time.

    Good luck!

    #85585

    Thomas
    Member
    Topics: 71
    Replies: 605

    Hi mate,
    I know what you are talking about. I was battling candida for several month and I progressed to get worse and worse. I then got hand on a book dealing with the different types of IBS, there I learned about SIBO and bacterial overgrowth.
    Suddenly things started to make sense to me. The MD didnt find BAD bacteria but what they dont know about is that you can have too much of the good on wrong places. I then wondered how the high fibre diet is affecting me. I had diarrhoea, very fast transit and all candida sympthoms you can thing of. In the end I was suffering panic attacks and nervous breakdowns of my entire system. I never had this happening to me in my entire life.

    I then stopped with the candida diet.
    I stopped eating high fibre food.

    My diarrhoea stopped after one day. Brain-fog I had for nearly a year vanished too. Pains stopped etc. Not to constipate I eat linseeds in my food. These don’t ferment and are NO food for bacteria. I still suffer but I am 80 percent better. I believe that I might have too little acid and are not digesting proper and have problems from there or I am straight forward intolerant too some food or the amount taken.

    I too noticed that not eating after 20.00 hours until morning 8.00 is a very good thing. In the night the guts are not operating and food being there is fermenting. So the best is to give a natural time of rest to the guts.

    I am not taking pro-biotics as I reacted to them but I am doing myself a drink from fermented cabbage. I run the cabbage through a food processor and add a lot of water, then I let the cabbage water mix standing for three days and drink the drink over a day. Then I set up a new one. Its doing me very good.

    For constipation is good to learn to sit right on the toilet. Its good not to hang over your legs but sitt straight up. It make a big difference as I was always sitting bend over.

    cheers
    Thomas

    #85593

    Angor
    Member
    Topics: 47
    Replies: 136

    Thank you for sharing Thomas. Your story sounds very similar to mine. About the probiotics and SIBO, you should read this story about someone on IBS Group who cured SIBO by cutting out probiotics: After 5 Relapses – Now Cured.

    I also notice that yogurt and such doesn’t work well with my stomach. My main problem is gas and diarrhea.

    What I would like is a flour that works with my body. Do anyone know of a flour that works with SIBO but doesn’t feed candida? Coconut, buckwheat and oat bran is too fibery. But of course, if it don’t feed the candida it should be on the allowed foods list, but it never hurts to ask …

    I’m a bit low in iron, does iron supply feed candida/SIBO?

    Thanks again Thomas for all your help.

    #85595

    Angor
    Member
    Topics: 47
    Replies: 136

    Thank you very much Latka for your reply. I recognize the sugar thing. Sugar has never been my main problem, not considering the gas anyway, but it certaintly didn’t help with the diarrhea.

    I’m keeping a diary since three months back, but it’s much harder than I thought to really tell what’s causing what. I’ll try for a month or so to lean towards a SIBO treating line. But preferably, without eating antying that could harm a recovery from a possible candida overgrowth.

    Thanks!

    And if there’s things to add, or further information about SIBO vs Candida, personal stories etc I’ll be glad to listen. I’m learning all the time.

    #85604

    Wendy
    Member
    Topics: 1
    Replies: 18

    Angor wrote: Thank you very much Latka for your reply. I recognize the sugar thing. Sugar has never been my main problem, not considering the gas anyway, but it certaintly didn’t help with the diarrhea.

    I’m keeping a diary since three months back, but it’s much harder than I thought to really tell what’s causing what. I’ll try for a month or so to lean towards a SIBO treating line. But preferably, without eating antying that could harm a recovery from a possible candida overgrowth.

    Thanks!

    And if there’s things to add, or further information about SIBO vs Candida, personal stories etc I’ll be glad to listen. I’m learning all the time.

    Have you tried eating dry food?
    For example, try this:

    #Breakfast
    2 slices of toast with peanut butter
    1 cup of tea (calming effect)
    1 banana

    #Lunch
    Grilled chicken
    2 boiled potatoes with rosemary

    #dinner
    a bowl of fiber-cereals with yogurt

    It really helped me so maybe it will help you feel a bit better.

    #85611

    Thomas
    Member
    Topics: 71
    Replies: 605

    Angor wrote: Thank you for sharing Thomas. Your story sounds very similar to mine. About the probiotics and SIBO, you should read this story about someone on IBS Group who cured SIBO by cutting out probiotics: After 5 Relapses – Now Cured.

    I also notice that yogurt and such doesn’t work well with my stomach. My main problem is gas and diarrhea.

    What I would like is a flour that works with my body. Do anyone know of a flour that works with SIBO but doesn’t feed candida? Coconut, buckwheat and oat bran is too fibery. But of course, if it don’t feed the candida it should be on the allowed foods list, but it never hurts to ask …

    I’m a bit low in iron, does iron supply feed candida/SIBO?

    Thanks again Thomas for all your help.

    Hi mate,
    thank you for the link!

    If you are having gas and diarrhoea than you have a too fast transit and malfermentation. I would look out NOT to get too much fibre. I simply dropped as a starter the idea that I have Candida and checked out if the IBS or SIBO was my problem. And lots things changed when I cut out the high fibre products. If you dont react to sugar than I would suggest that you, before candida, check out how you feel if you go with a anti SIBO diet. You could try too the GAPS introduction diet. That would not spoil your anticandida battle and gives you a chance to see what happens to your gas and diarrhoea.

    http://www.gaps.me/preview/?page_id=28

    You too can cut off on the veggies the heavy fibres before you eat it. That might even be enough for you. I had a change after 3 days. You should see the effect within a week or two max.

    cheers
    Thomas

    #85624

    Angor
    Member
    Topics: 47
    Replies: 136

    Wendy wrote:
    Have you tried eating dry food?
    For example, try this:

    #Breakfast
    2 slices of toast with peanut butter
    1 cup of tea (calming effect)
    1 banana

    #Lunch
    Grilled chicken
    2 boiled potatoes with rosemary

    #dinner
    a bowl of fiber-cereals with yogurt

    It really helped me so maybe it will help you feel a bit better.

    Thank you, Wendy, but this food schedual goes against everything I learned so far, so it kind of makes me go *oohhh noooeeees* not toast, and peanut, and banana, and potatoes and fiber. Lol. I know too much carbs gives a mix of stomach problems. And the food items above would help neither candida or SIBO. But thank you, thank you for trying to help! 🙂

    #85628

    Angor
    Member
    Topics: 47
    Replies: 136

    Thomas wrote:

    Hi mate,
    thank you for the link!

    If you are having gas and diarrhoea than you have a too fast transit and malfermentation. I would look out NOT to get too much fibre. I simply dropped as a starter the idea that I have Candida and checked out if the IBS or SIBO was my problem. And lots things changed when I cut out the high fibre products. If you dont react to sugar than I would suggest that you, before candida, check out how you feel if you go with a anti SIBO diet. You could try too the GAPS introduction diet. That would not spoil your anticandida battle and gives you a chance to see what happens to your gas and diarrhoea.

    http://www.gaps.me/preview/?page_id=28

    You too can cut off on the veggies the heavy fibres before you eat it. That might even be enough for you. I had a change after 3 days. You should see the effect within a week or two max.

    cheers
    Thomas

    Thanks a lot, Thomas. I’ll look in to the GAPS-diet and try to do a combo which suits both treatment for SIBO and Candida!

    I do react to sugar, mostly not right away, but I’ve noticed major changes since cutting sugar from my diet. Also, I don’t know how I would react now, since I’ve been without it for … three months. So, I’ll just try to stay somewhere in the middle between SIBO and Candida-diet and see what happens. Hopefully something good.

    I really don’t want to do something to mess upp the progress I’ve been doing so far. I’ll just have to do it a bit different in the future – less fibre 🙂

    #85636

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    Try reading this recent report about IBS http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120525103354.htm

    If you have symptoms in your small intestines (bloating, pain etc), it’s pretty likely SIBO is the problem. Symptoms soon after eating suggest the same too. GERD and a history of acid suppressing drug use are big contributors to the problem. You’ll probably have lots of food sensitivities too, since leaky gut is almost guaranteed.

    It’s important to make the distinction, because you need to alter your diet to treat bacterial problems. Ketosis isn’t generally a favourable state to be in, and not helpful with candida, since fungi can feed on ketones. Bacteria, on the other hand, rely on glucose, so a near zero-carb diet and regular fasting is much more effective. Eating lots of coconut oil and additional protein can help prevent a glucose deficiency. If you feel the need, it’s possible to maintain ketosis even while consuming some carbs if you eat lots of coconut oil.

    Daily intermittent fasting is a good practice to follow. You set an 8-hour eating window, e.g. 9am-5pm, and fast for the rest of the day. Towards the end of the fasting period, your body begins autophagy, which can destroy intracellular pathogens. A weekly 36-hour fast is helpful in the same way, and any kind of fasting obviously helps to starve bacteria. You can eat coconut oil without breaking your fast.

    You should read through the biofilms thread too. Once microbes multiply to the extent that quorum sensing becomes possible, biofilms are an inevitability. I think this is much more an issue for people with SIBO than candida, and probably a big factor in so many people struggling with the condition. Biofilms essentially make bacteria impervious to antibiotics, so they need to be dealt with as a priority or you’ll never fully remove the colonies.

    I’m not an expert on the condition and haven’t researched it specifically, but I’d definitely try a near-zero-carb diet with minimal fibre, including intermittent fasting and weekly extended fasts. At some point, you should attempt to disrupt biofilms for about 4-weeks by following one of the protocols mentioned in the thread, which involves special supplements followed up with antimicrobials to eliminate the disrupted bacterial colonies. I’m sure you’ll get a better picture if you do some more research on SIBO around these lines. Good luck anyways.

    #85658

    Angor
    Member
    Topics: 47
    Replies: 136

    Thank you for the very informative answer, Javizy. It was interesting to read. I also read the article, and I guess it’s pretty likely I have SIBO. Though, some aspects of my illness speaks for candida (sore throat, UTI, previous yeast infections), and some aspects speaks against it (I’ve had very little die-off, I ate a whole Rutabaga without feeling a thing). I’ve decided that I’m going to try for both.

    I’m in Ketosis right now, I can smell it when I exercise. Is this a good state for SIBO?

    The biofilms thread – I’ve followed it before, but I don’t know how on earth I could get my hands on those suppliments without spending a fortune. It will be very hard to find them in a Swedish store. Are there some baby step method for destroying biofilms? Maybe I could begin with just one thing?

    Thanks for helping! It means a lot.

    #85685

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    It’s possible to have SIBO and a candida overgrowth, and not that unlikely since imbalance at the beginning of the GI tract doesn’t exactly support a healthy colon. I’d assume it’s a problem as long as yeast infections occur. 

    You have to adapt your approach slightly to target either bacteria or yeast, and it makes sense to get things in order in the stomach and small intestines first. A low-fibre ketogenic diet with plenty of coconut oil will probably keep candida in check until you can focus on it fully. 

    It’s important to remember that your body doesn’t fit neat diagnostic labels like SIBO and you could have a number of issues – hormonal, psychological, metabolic, immunological, nutritional etc – that need addressing. It’s not about ‘I have condition X’, it’s about doing everything you can to restore your health, which seems to take a lot of research, trial and error and determination. In some ways getting a label like IBS is a big setback, at least it was for me with “RSI”.

    My Japanese friend (in Japan) gets good shipping rates on iHerb (US site). Have you checked on there for supplements? For biofilms, I think it’s best to take a short, focused approach because it’ll disrupt everything, good and bad. Waiting until you feel you’ve improved somewhat and know exactly what to do isn’t a bad idea. The more good bacteria you have in advance, the better chance they have of rebuilding strong after the disruption. I can’t really tell you more than what’s in the thread, but hopefully you can read the protocols and come to your own conclusions. Good luck!

    #85732

    Angor
    Member
    Topics: 47
    Replies: 136

    I don’t know why I keep thinking that one must outrule the other. I’ll keep that in mind, Javizy. Also, I’ll look in to iHerb. Thank you again for your super informative and sensible reply!

    #85733

    Angor
    Member
    Topics: 47
    Replies: 136

    One additional questions:

    My iron is a bit low. Would a suppliment feed possible candida/SIBO? Earlier, dvjorge wrote: “Iron increase candida like crazy”. Does this go for natural iron too, found in spinach and such?

    #99144

    moochpb
    Member
    Topics: 112
    Replies: 688

    Just seen this post. I noticed my reflux is worse eating coconut bread, buckwheat, almond butter at times. I also ate every two hours but all that isn’t good for sibo which I pretty much know I have. Xifaran is a good drug that stays in the intestines and doesn’t make yeast worse. I did have major die off after my first week of treatment but you can have die off for sibo also.

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