Understanding Candida Related Complex

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  • #86687

    mygutleaks
    Participant
    Topics: 47
    Replies: 166

    it’s simple, different things work for different people. i started out reading this site exclusively for several months. i tried the diet and the antifungals, but ran in to issues with not being able to eat most of the foods required by the protocol. and the antifungals gave me issues. i found the website, Curezone, and now believe a congested liver may need to be delt with. and then, it was discovered i have an active case of h pylori. so how does that tie in? i’m still not healed. but after much reading, i have an understanding of the whole picture, how toxins and how internal organs are involved, i feel like i could be on the correct path to whole-body healing. however, i also don’t have severe issues from the candida, other than a couple of symptoms that i’d like to go away, but could live with if they don’t, whereas others are very seriously ill and maybe even dying. everyone is different and i’m so glad for reading Able, Raster, dvjorge, and there are many many other names, on this site and curezone of people who seem to know what they are talking about, regarding whole-body healing. sometimes it requires taking bits and pieces of everyones’ thoughts and experiences. i think dvjorge is certainly on to something with putting nystatin where the sun don’t shine. but, for people who can tolerate the radical diet, likely they don’t need nystatin. but everybody should just chill out and not be stubborn. there likely is no right or wrong answer – it’s all dependent on one’s individual case. for those who are cured and want to help others – God bless you for being so selfless. you suffered and now share so others won’t have to go through the pain and destroy families, go broke, enrich thieving companies who pray on the desparate. you are all great people in my mind.

    #86715

    Chris24
    Member
    Topics: 12
    Replies: 329

    Able900 wrote:
    Hello, Chris.

    As you may know, The Protocol on the forum specifically addresses this issue.

    In short; according to the protocol, the detox or cleanse comes first which immediately starts destroying the Candida, the diet second, antifungals third, and the vitamins, herbs and supplements fourth. Next the homemade kefir or yogurt is added which contains beneficial bacteria, then the commercial probiotics containing more beneficial bacteria are added last because, by this time a significant number of Candida will have been eliminated as many members can attest to because of the die-off symptoms. By this time, each of the five steps has attributed to the decrease of the population of the Candida. Of course, as the members have discovered, the commercial probiotics will kill off more of the infestation simply because the bacteria are slowly beginning to build a negative environment for the Candida infestation.

    In my experience as well as that of others, the probiotics do not have to wait until the “biggest amount of colonies are gone” in order to help in the elimination as it often causes severe die-off.
    Able

    Yes the probiotics cause die off because they fight with a part of the candida, yes the antifungals diminish a part of the candida relieving us from some symptoms, yes the protocol makes you feel better after a long time, perhaps even symptom free. I felt like that before, until I made the simple mistake of eating some white rice, getting me contipated for a week and never getting to that point of health again. Why? My guess is: because a big amount of candida was still there just waiting for an opportunity to get ground again. It lies dorment in the gut, we might feel symptom free for a while, but once we get back to normal life a relapse is too easy because of the remaining concentration of candida in the colon. This is because antifungals do not reach the colon in high enough concentrations to be thoroughly effective, and probiotics (which are crazy expensive btw) cant work efficiently if the concentration of candida is too high, like in severe cases like Jorge’s and mine. He also mentioned his gut flora turned out to be normal, but the candida infestation was still there.

    There is a reason why it takes up to 18 months to get rid of a candida infestation: the protocol is inefficient. The reason is because using the current method, we basically starve the candida of food, somewhat diminish it with oral anti fungals (which mostly get absorbed into the blood and small intestines), and if the concentration is low enough diminish the rest slowly with probiotics. This is a very painful and inefficient procedure for moderate to severe cases, because you have to live like a monk for a year. I really respect that you got this far this way, but not everyone can do this, especially when there is a way to directly target the base of the candida in the colon with dramatic, fast results.

    And this is what is happening right now. Like many other people, I am not in a position to live like a monk and after many years of trying dealing with this problem, having some succes with a protocol only to fall back hard, I have come to realize that the real problem is in the colon. And that is where you wont need diet to keep things quiet, because you are removing the actual cause of the disturbance. After that, the probiotics can take over, the immune system can take over, and we should be fine. This is what i am experiencing right now. I have no reactions to sugar anymore, I dont feel destroyed anymore after a couple of beers. I look and feel better.

    #86717

    Latka
    Member
    Topics: 5
    Replies: 128

    I agree with mygutleaks, that different things work for different people. I think it is important to keep this in mind, just because something worked for you does not automatically mean it will work the same way for me. Every case is different and there is so much to consider. I appreciate reading the different inputs because I know that I will have to figure out for myself what needs to be done. Following the protocol left me a lot worse, the probiotis being the worst of my mistakes. That is not to say that the protocoll won’t work for someone else, just that it did not work for me. And so I must keep on searching for my own solutions. In this search the information on this forum has been very helpful (especially when there are conflicting viewpoints as they get me to consider things in new ways).

    #86732

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1369

    Latka wrote: I agree with mygutleaks, that different things work for different people. I think it is important to keep this in mind, just because something worked for you does not automatically mean it will work the same way for me. Every case is different and there is so much to consider. I appreciate reading the different inputs because I know that I will have to figure out for myself what needs to be done. Following the protocol left me a lot worse, the probiotis being the worst of my mistakes. That is not to say that the protocoll won’t work for someone else, just that it did not work for me. And so I must keep on searching for my own solutions. In this search the information on this forum has been very helpful (especially when there are conflicting viewpoints as they get me to consider things in new ways).

    Exactly, this is the main point of my posts. Allow people to think, allow people to realize the problem and knowing why the current candida protocols are so ineffective.

    I want to bring more points but giving you the reasons and all the support I can find. I want you educated. The information is there, in books, medical papers,etc. What I have done is to put the pieces together. I haven’t invented anything. Since I didn’t find a MD that could solve my problem, I decided to learn. Trust me, it hasn’t been easy since the spreaded information have confused me many times.

    The unreal information has born from the lack of medical attention, desperation, business, etc. It has been so powerfully propagated that is really hard to change people’s mind. People still continue with GSE, Oregano Oil, etc for years. Yes, you can try them at first but you can not plan to be all your life in that vicious circle.

    I was totally unhappy with it and decided to look for new avenues. I was digging and digging, incredibly, I have found a huge amount of real information that has been buried for years. It has been 4 years visiting libraries, reading, paying medical articles, etc. I was the only way. I was expecting my MDs solved it but I had to get it myself or allow my life to be ruined forever without find a way to recover.

    The problem with this Sr is he hasn’t had to live a real candida case thank god. He doesn’t know what really a candida affected person suffers. He doesn’t have a story of taking antibiotics ( main cause of this syndrome ) neither can post pictures of what has came out of his intestines. He contradicts himself telling people he eats a normal diet when he has posted many times that he still follows the diet more or less. Recently, someone (positivo) posted a list of food he wants to live with ( very reasonable and a normal aspiration) , and got an answer from him telling he has no tried many of them yet. So, what is a normal diet ????
    Those are the differences that keeps him entertained with Kefir and Coconut Oil and don’t allow him to realize there is a hope for those who don’t get better and aspire to live a normal life. No to be tied to a diet forever.

    Jorge.

    #86789

    Chris24
    Member
    Topics: 12
    Replies: 329

    Latka wrote: I agree with mygutleaks, that different things work for different people. I think it is important to keep this in mind, just because something worked for you does not automatically mean it will work the same way for me. Every case is different and there is so much to consider. I appreciate reading the different inputs because I know that I will have to figure out for myself what needs to be done. Following the protocol left me a lot worse, the probiotis being the worst of my mistakes. That is not to say that the protocoll won’t work for someone else, just that it did not work for me. And so I must keep on searching for my own solutions. In this search the information on this forum has been very helpful (especially when there are conflicting viewpoints as they get me to consider things in new ways).

    Yes, I agree, but not fully, as enema’s should work for everyone.

    – The main body of candida is in the colon
    – Enema’s using powerful anti fungal or anti pathogen subtances destroy and remove those colonies
    – Candida is gone

    After that, the side issues and cause of dysbiosis can be adressed way easier, for everyone. A lot of people are suffering and wasting money needlessly. I was hesitant about the idea of enema’s at first, until I tried it and found out its really easy, safe and effective, and it makes me feel great. I quit supplements, I quit the diet 2,5 months ago, and am improving fast.

    #86835

    Able900
    Spectator
    Topics: 92
    Replies: 4811

    dvjorge wrote: I have brought my services and testimonies for free, and ALWAYS will be free.
    I mean NO money and NO bussiness, but a good heart.
    At first, your diet was visible. Now, people have to required it from you ?? What comes next ??

    First, if you were following the protocol and diet by actually asking for it, you would have received the letter which comes with it, and you would know why a version of the diet that was on the forum is no longer posted here since the explanation is explained in the letter.

    Second, I need to know for certain, Jorge, are you insinuating that I am charging the members for my advice, and the diet, or that I intend to do so? Just so you know, I’ve been offered money for private and continuous advice away from the forum before, however, I do not charge people for my advice, and I do not ever intend to do that as I am not an actual Candida albicans “expert” any more than you are. I have told several members that if anyone, including myself, ever tried to charge him for any service or any supplement to notify Anna immediately.

    So please go ahead and query the entire forum on that subject. Post the question for all to see.

    Your postion deserve to be watched.

    I’ll try to remember to ask Anna the administrator if she’ll keep an eye on me, and perhaps she can periodically inquire of the members as to whether or not I’m charging them for my advice or the diet. Thanks for the suggestion.

    Able

    #86839

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1369

    Able900 wrote:

    I have brought my services and testimonies for free, and ALWAYS will be free.
    I mean NO money and NO bussiness, but a good heart.
    At first, your diet was visible. Now, people have to required it from you ?? What comes next ??

    First, if you were following the protocol and diet by actually asking for it, you would have received the letter which comes with it, and you would know why a version of the diet that was on the forum is no longer posted here since the explanation is explained in the letter.

    Second, I need to know for certain, Jorge, are you insinuating that I am charging the members for my advice, and the diet, or that I intend to do so? Just so you know, I’ve been offered money for private and continuous advice away from the forum before, however, I do not charge people for my advice, and I do not ever intend to do that as I am not an actual Candida albicans “expert” any more than you are. I have told several members that if anyone, including myself, ever tried to charge him for any service or any supplement to notify Anna immediately.

    So please go ahead and query the entire forum on that subject. Post the question for all to see.

    Your postion deserve to be watched.

    I’ll try to remember to ask Anna the administrator if she’ll keep an eye on me, and perhaps she can periodically inquire of the members as to whether or not I’m charging them for my advice or the diet. Thanks for the suggestion.

    Able

    I apologize with you.
    I am happy knowing that that is your position. You have my admiration and respect for the tenacity of be helping people in this forum. It has a great value for me, in spite we have had many differences regarding to aspects linked to this syndrome. One thing doesn’t have any relation with the other.

    I admire what you do.

    Jorge.

    #86852

    mygutleaks
    Participant
    Topics: 47
    Replies: 166

    Hi Chris,

    Did you quit the diet while doing the enemas? Or did you stay on the diet until the enemas were successful and finished?

    Thank you,

    MGL

    #86864

    Chris24
    Member
    Topics: 12
    Replies: 329

    mygutleaks wrote: Hi Chris,

    Did you quit the diet while doing the enemas? Or did you stay on the diet until the enemas were successful and finished?

    I quit the diet 2,5 months ago, have been on a semi healthy normal diet since then.

    #86874

    Aloe214
    Member
    Topics: 0
    Replies: 8

    Jorge what’s your thought on probiotic or ACV enema. I can’t get nystatin and only use warm water so far.

    #86875

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1369

    Aloe214 wrote: Jorge what’s your thought on probiotic or ACV enema. I can’t get nystatin and only use warm water so far.

    Probiotic won’t do anything. Don’t waste your time and money. ACV is effective against candida, but there is a problem it is also powerful bactericidal. I don’t like it to be used in the colon. Many people have used it under their own risk.

    Continue with water only, it will give you results.

    Jorge.

    #86943

    nikki
    Member
    Topics: 44
    Replies: 136

    Chris24 wrote:

    Yes the probiotics cause die off because they fight with a part of the candida, yes the antifungals diminish a part of the candida relieving us from some symptoms, yes the protocol makes you feel better after a long time, perhaps even symptom free. I felt like that before, until I made the simple mistake of eating some white rice, getting me contipated for a week and never getting to that point of health again. Why? My guess is: because a big amount of candida was still there just waiting for an opportunity to get ground again. It lies dorment in the gut, we might feel symptom free for a while, but once we get back to normal life a relapse is too easy because of the remaining concentration of candida in the colon.

    This is a very painful and inefficient procedure for moderate to severe cases, because you have to live like a monk for a year. I really respect that you got this far this way, but not everyone can do this, especially when there is a way to directly target the base of the candida in the colon with dramatic, fast results.

    And this is what is happening right now. Like many other people, I am not in a position to live like a monk and after many years of trying dealing with this problem, having some succes with a protocol only to fall back hard, I have come to realize that the real problem is in the colon. And that is where you wont need diet to keep things quiet, because you are removing the actual cause of the disturbance. After that, the probiotics can take over, the immune system can take over, and we should be fine. This is what i am experiencing right now. I have no reactions to sugar anymore, I dont feel destroyed anymore after a couple of beers. I look and feel better.

    you are bang on, this is the point I tried to make here a few days ago.

    I tried asking people (I am not pointing to any one specifically/personally) who claim to be cured 100% with the diet, about why they are not getting back to the regular/normal diet and why they aren’t eating what their family eats. Why do they need a special diet if they have already been cured.

    For me a cure means eating regular food along with our families (I don’t mean junk food), not just controlling the symptoms by eating a restricted/malnutrition diet.

    I even spoke over phone to a 50 yr old man, who suffered from candida infestation for around 20 years and later cured his infestation in about 15 months.
    His diet was not this strict, he was eating fruits, rice (though limited), whole grains, and a lot more other stuff which is considered restricted here… all through the treatment, he took no probiotics other than home made yoghurt. But still he cured his infestation, and that was 10 yrs ago, and since the past 10 years he has been eating along with his family the same food they eat and has no problems with that. (this is what I call as a cure).

    I dont want an argument about the allowed/restricted foods, what I try to point out here is even though he was eating all those foods he cured his much serious infestation in a period of 15 months. Where as many people having mild cases compared to his are finding it difficult to get completely cured even after being on the strict diet for many more days.

    How did he get to that point??
    Because he did enemas, he cleaned his colon directly?

    #86944

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    nikki wrote: How did he get to that point??
    Because he did enemas, he cleaned his colon directly?

    Did he actually do enemas or are you speculating? I share your concerns and it can be frustrating trying to understand things and reason with people, but you can’t be too critical because there really isn’t that much science to definitively direct us or prove anyone right or wrong. If something doesn’t work for you, then don’t stick with it to the death. Learn what you can from others’ research and experiences and find what works for you.

    I certainly think there’s a lot more to this than anti-sugar candida dogma. I read a wide range of health/nutrition blogs that discuss vastly different ideas and approaches. I often see somebody commenting about “yeast infections” clearing up. These people don’t even know the word candida. They’re improving their health and a resistance to infections is just one part of that. Sometimes I think getting sucked into the candida aspect might actually distract some people from their real problems like metabolic damage, poor immunity, shot hormones etc. There are different paths to health and people walk them in different states of disease.

    #86946

    nikki
    Member
    Topics: 44
    Replies: 136

    Javizy wrote:

    How did he get to that point??
    Because he did enemas, he cleaned his colon directly?

    Did he actually do enemas or are you speculating? I share your concerns and it can be frustrating trying to understand things and reason with people, but you can’t be too critical because there really isn’t that much science to definitively direct us or prove anyone right or wrong. If something doesn’t work for you, then don’t stick with it to the death. Learn what you can from others’ research and experiences and find what works for you.

    I certainly think there’s a lot more to this than anti-sugar candida dogma. I read a wide range of health/nutrition blogs that discuss vastly different ideas and approaches. I often see somebody commenting about “yeast infections” clearing up. These people don’t even know the word candida. They’re improving their health and a resistance to infections is just one part of that. Sometimes I think getting sucked into the candida aspect might actually distract some people from their real problems like metabolic damage, poor immunity, shot hormones etc. There are different paths to health and people walk them in different states of disease.

    What do you mean by “Did he actually do enemas or are you speculating?”
    do you think people post what ever they feel like just to down show someone??

    did you understand my post?? you seem to be completely lost? I am not frustrated in any way nor its like something didn’t work for me.

    please read my post clearly again, and if you still stand by your reply, then there is nothing I can do.

    It seems to me that you were already prepared since a long time to post this reply somewhere, and just happend to post it here in response to me.

    Its really getting hard for me to relate your response to my post.

    anyway I am posting the link to the entire fight of the person to whom I spoke with, read and decide if its he who doesn’t even know the word candida or if its you who don’t even know what you are posting.

    http://www.ei-resource.org/articles/candida-and-gut-dysbiosis-articles/my-battle-with-candida/

    Thanks

    #86947

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    I agree with Javizy in thinking that there is a lot going on with everyone’s health problems. People shouldn’t be calling it “their candida problem” but in reality it is a health problem that is specific to them. In other words, I feel that we all have our own version of candida, the cause for it, and individual symptoms. We all have organs that are damaged in a variety of ways be it lungs, heart, colon, pancreas, intestines, galbladder, etc. We all accumulated toxins from plastics, chemicals, drugs, vaccines, environment, etc. The candida diet cannot heal all of these organs, but eating healthy and living healthy can.

    You can also heal these organs via other means such as specific supplements, vitamins, herbs, acupuncture, mineral baths (sweating out toxins), etc. There is a wide variety of different protocols that promote health such as altering the bodies pH, reharmonizing the body with acupuncture, getting minerals via mineral baths, meditation, and the list can go on and on. Enemas are another treatment and its something that only one of us has a ton of knowledge in (dvjorge). I feel that because of this, his experience/opinions should be understood and valued…but only with the context of looking at and understanding other health treatments and cures.

    There’s a lot going on with the body; it works and behaves in a manner that is more complex than anything humans have studied in nature. I feel that there are multiple ways to cure the body and just because people on the internet say this way or that way works is the way to get healed doesn’t mean its ONLY way. I have a feeling that theres dozens of ways for people to get over candida, but it all comes down to what is best for you and your specific version of candida.

    For instance, I know for sure that I have candida in my lungs…and the protocols, enemas, etc. out there are not going to remove the candida from my lungs. I have to develop my own protocol to attack the candida in my lungs and this is going to be different than almost everyone else. The enemas might remove the candida from my colon but it won’t remove it from other places it exists and persists. Just throwing this out there as an example, but we all have our version of candida and the cause for it to grow in the first place.

    -raster

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