Understanding Candida Related Complex

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  • #86555

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    I have several reasons to chose this topic for this post. First, I have noticed during my four years researching candida how misunderstood this syndrome is, and the amount of myths about it we find in the web. As I have said in some of my other posts, the web has been an excellent source of information for me but has also been my worst enemy because there is a lot of unproved and wrong information about this syndrome all around. Since I am planning on leaving the forums some day, I want to help new and inexperienced people looking for help to understand several important terms about CRC. (Candida Related Complex) In fact, my research and acquired knowledge have been my main weapons to attack what was destroying my health. At the end, my diligence and dedication has been paying me. I hope this happens to all you too. This is what I have understood about this syndrome after all my reading and time finding good sources of information.

    Candida Related Complex or Chronic Candidiasis is a syndrome caused by the exposition of antigens (metabolites) released by an intestinal/genital fungal overgrowth. This syndrome isn’t caused by the presence of candida itself on our mucosal tissues even when it causes localized symptoms such irritation, inflammation, itchiness, redness, and pain. The cause of most symptoms is the amount of metabolites yeast colonies release inside of the human colon when they have exceeded tolerable amounts. These metabolites act as antigens reacting with our immune system response.
    This is very important because we commonly find people and websites claiming the presence of candida albicans in the bloodstream and other vital organs as the cause of this syndrome.
    This syndrome isn’t FUNGEMIA or CANDIDEMIA that is the medical term used when candida albicans or any other specie disseminate through the body infecting a vital organ. Never tell your Dr you have systemic candidiasis. This isn’t the case of this syndrome. Keep it clear, this syndrome is caused by a chronic mucosal yeast overgrowth and its metabolic products.
    Some alternative practitioners claim to see live candida cells in a “live blood analysis” in patient suffering this syndrome. That isn’t correct. What they see under a microscopy are fragments of the candida cell wall that reaches the bloodstream after the yeast growth and germinate. During this process, the yeast cell wall elongates releasing very small fragments of the yeast cell in the intestines that later cross the epithelium reaching the circulatory system. Candida Albicans alive cells rarely reach the blood. When they do it, you need urgent medical care and powerful Rx antifungals to avoid a massive septicemia. If the yeast is able to reach your blood and disseminate, it is because your immune system is totally suppressed and this only happens when people have advanced cancers, AIDS, and other serious medical situations.

    Why the presence of candida albicans in the intestines cause the myriad of symptoms we feel ??

    The explanation is based on the amount of candida bi-products we are exposed when the yeast growth to significant levels in our intestine. Medicine has identified at least 78 different antigens generated by candida albicans that cross-react with human antibodies. Fungus generate a lot of waste when they metabolize and digest food and tissues.
    Having a yeast overgrowth in our intestines, means to be exposed to an avalanche of metabolites that reaches the blood causing an immense list of local and remote symptoms. The most affected areas are the immunologic system and the neuroendocrine system.

    There are two important aspects about the mycotoxins and the immune suppression mechanism.
    In the web, we find the false myth that the germination of candida albicans to its more virulent form is what cause this syndrome. This is a wrong information such as many more you find in internet commonly. “Commensal” yeast also release metabolites and are also pathogenic. Medicine has proved that during an acute yeast infection, there are different morphogenetic forms of candida albicans. The selective growing is influenced by the micro-environment and the morphogenesis isn’t a requirement to cause infection. Candida Albicans mono-cells produce the same metabolites that any other of its forms produces. There are several candida especies that morphs. However, there are a lot more resistant and virulent species such as Candida Glabrata, that infects the mucus membranes and cause chronic candidiasis. These species don’t germinate and are very infectious. It is true candida albicans gain tissue penetration abilities one time it is able to morph. It increases its virulence, mobility, and tissue invasion, but it doesn’t mean yeast mono-cells are harmless.

    There ISN’T difference regarding what phenotype form of candida generates the antigens that are causing you feeling miserable. The presence of a considerable amount of yeast cells in your intestines, no matter if they are in the called fungal form or the yeast form, will cause this syndrome. The degree of colonization is what matter and its ability to gain terrain and growth every time we are exposed to causative factors such as antibiotics or a decreased cell-mediated immunity.

    There are probably different mechanisms that may cause our immune depressed state when a fungal/yeast overgrowth is chronically present. To my knowledge these are:

    Some people have genetic susceptibility to yeast overgrowth. Minor immune defects may also play a role during chronic or repeated yeast infections. The most accepted theory is an acquired immune tolerance caused by the presence of the yeast in significant amounts for an extended period of time. This is known as an immune tolerance caused by chronic antigenemia. It means the immune system stops attacking the yeast one time it has stayed for sometime living on our tissues with a considerable amount. One time the immune response is paralyzed, we are left with our antagonistic bacterial flora as the only defense against yeast expansion. Yeast are present on all our mucosal tissues in most people ,and when we take antibiotics the antagonistic bacterial flora is reduced allowing the fungus to gain space and to become more infectious. Candida Albicans is also able to depresses cell-mediated immunity when there is an overgrowth. Anything that affects cell-mediated immunity is affecting your immune defenses against the presence of the yeast. Heavy metal toxicity, candida itself, any considerable toxic load, leaky gut syndrome, etc. I don’t think the cause of this syndrome is antibiotic intake because there are many people who takes antibiotics, even long term, that never develop candidiasis. I think antibiotics trigger chronic candidiasis only when susceptible people take them and when the immune system is affected by an acquired immune suppression. There is probably a degree of incidence regarding the antibiotic dosage and duration that may cause enough flora disruption to cause an intestinal candidiasis that eventually becomes chronic.

    The MAIN objective treating the chronic overgrowth is to reduce or eradicate the fungal colonies living in the intestines reducing the amount of antigens that reaches our blood and are affecting our immunity against the yeast and causing the debilitating symptoms we feel. When the intestinal overgrowth be reduced to sporadic cells for enough time, our immune system has chance to balance and reactivate allowing cell-mediated immunity restoration and the correction of this syndrome in most cases. Without the presence of yeast colonies, the immune restoration may occurs spontaneous. However, some people need immune stimulation shots using candida antigen to help them to re-gain the normal immune response to candida albicans or other species. The beneficial bacterial flora will restore one time candida be eradicated following a balanced diet and supporting it with adequate Prebiotics . Restoring a competitive beneficial flora in the colon after fungal elimination is vital to keep the fungus away. There are also people who needs to correct chronic underlying causes such as heavy metal toxicity in order to re-gain a proper immune response to the yeast. Mercury toxicity polarizes the immune systems toward to a humoral response depressing cell-mediated immunity. Until this hidden cause don’t be corrected, it is almost impossible to eliminate chronic yeast infections. The immune response is vital to overcome this syndrome, so you need to identify any cause that be affecting your immune balance.

    The most important task Candida Related Complex sufferes have is to eliminate the fungal overgrowth that is present inside the intestines and other mucosal areas. Concentrating the treatment killing candida and following a diet is vital to re-gain the health but the goal of any chronic candidiasis treatment should be to restore the normal immune competence to the exposition of the yeast. Until this won’t be achieve, there isn’t hope to return to normality.

    I hope this post give you some valuable knowledge during your journey.

    God Bless All You,

    Jorge.

    #86559

    Chris24
    Member
    Topics: 12
    Replies: 329

    Hi Jorge, thanks for the knowledge. Thanks to you and the enema idea I am improving greatly.

    I was hoping you could answer these relating questions.

    Question: If the cell mediated immunity is disturbed through candida, and the body does not see the candida as an intruder, is it then also true that boosting and restoring our immune system is useless until after the candida colones are reduced?

    Question: Arent probiotics fighting a losing battle in the same manner because the candida is too out of control for probiotics to do anything until after the biggest amount of colonies are gone?

    #86562

    Delyse
    Member
    Topics: 19
    Replies: 47

    Hi Jorge

    Thanks very much for the post. It is very helpful for other people as there are so much info in Internet regarding candida, which becomes very confusing.

    I really appreciate that you take your time to post the information for other people. I always like to read your posts.

    Many thanks,

    Delyse.

    #86564

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    Chris,
    Thanks for your words.
    My post is intended as an educative resource, and MOSTLY, to release suffering.
    It is very sad going to the bed at night thinking you have candida albicans in your blood and your life is at risk. People also deserve the right of knowing why they feel so bad that life has become a misery.

    I respectfully ask you to remove the article part you attached to your post since that information doesn’t have scientific support and will disturb the main idea of my post and the message I am bringing.

    I will be happy to comment on it if you open a new post about it.

    Thanks,

    Jorge

    #86565

    Chris24
    Member
    Topics: 12
    Replies: 329

    dvjorge wrote: Chris,
    Thanks for your words.
    My post is intended as an educative resource, and MOSTLY, to release suffering.
    It is very sad going to the bed at night thinking you have candida albicans in your blood and your life is at risk. People also deserve the right of knowing why they feel so bad that life has become a misery.

    I respectfully ask you to remove the article part you attached to your post since that information doesn’t have scientific support and will disturb the main idea of my post and the message I am bringing.

    I will be happy to comment on it if you open a new post about it.

    Thanks,

    Jorge

    I guess that is fair since this is your topic. I have removed it.

    Would you mind answering my questions though?

    #86589

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    Chris24 wrote: Hi Jorge, thanks for the knowledge. Thanks to you and the enema idea I am improving greatly.

    I was hoping you could answer these relating questions.

    Question: If the cell mediated immunity is disturbed through candida, and the body does not see the candida as an intruder, is it then also true that boosting and restoring our immune system is useless until after the candida colones are reduced?

    Question: Arent probiotics fighting a losing battle in the same manner because the candida is too out of control for probiotics to do anything until after the biggest amount of colonies are gone?

    Chris,

    Yes, boosting the immune system with supplements before the fungal colonies are reduced can not correct this syndrome. You should way until the right moment to take immune boosters, at least you have enough money to keep them during the complete process.
    Probiotics may play an important role when the fungal colonies be eliminated since they promote the right environment for your own bacterial growth. One time candida has colonized, it won’t move out to leave space for bacterias. You have to do your best eliminating the overgrowth, and later to promote a healthy friendly flora.

    Jorge.

    #86608

    s.
    Member
    Topics: 12
    Replies: 80

    I like to visualize candida or fungus as little mosquito spraying trucks. They drive around (well not really, they stay put in their little biofilms) in the intestines and spray out toxins that kill their main competitor for food – bacteria (just like the mosquito trucks spray bug killer to kill mosquitos.)It’s hard for bacteria to get going when there are all those toxins all over. Jorge – great post.

    #86627

    goingnatural
    Member
    Topics: 38
    Replies: 249

    Thanks for this post.

    I’d like to encourage you to stay on the boards, your perspective , while some may disagree, i think is useful and an important one in all our battles against this syndrome .

    #86628

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    goingnatural wrote: Thanks for this post.

    I’d like to encourage you to stay on the boards, your perspective , while some may disagree, i think is useful and an important one in all our battles against this syndrome .

    Thank you. I corrected it a little bit and also added more information. I think it is more clear now. I don’t have the facility I would like to have in English.

    Sure, you will win the battle. At this time, I am totally convinced.

    Jorge.

    #86642

    Chris24
    Member
    Topics: 12
    Replies: 329

    dvjorge wrote:
    Chris,

    Yes, boosting the immune system with supplements before the fungal colonies are reduced can not correct this syndrome. You should way until the right moment to take immune boosters, at least you have enough money to keep them during the complete process.
    Probiotics may play an important role when the fungal colonies be eliminated since they promote the right environment for your own bacterial growth. One time candida has colonized, it won’t move out to leave space for bacterias. You have to do your best eliminating the overgrowth, and later to promote a healthy friendly flora.

    Jorge.

    Just as I thought. This means that we were wrong all this time! People are suffering needlessly, wasting money on probiotics, antifungals and supplements thats not even making a difference because the candida is blocking it all!

    #86659

    Able900
    Spectator
    Topics: 92
    Replies: 4811

    Chris24 wrote: Question: Arent probiotics fighting a losing battle in the same manner because the candida is too out of control for probiotics to do anything until after the biggest amount of colonies are gone?

    Hello, Chris.

    As you may know, The Protocol on the forum specifically addresses this issue.

    In short; according to the protocol, the detox or cleanse comes first which immediately starts destroying the Candida, the diet second, antifungals third, and the vitamins, herbs and supplements fourth. Next the homemade kefir or yogurt is added which contains beneficial bacteria, then the commercial probiotics containing more beneficial bacteria are added last because, by this time a significant number of Candida will have been eliminated as many members can attest to because of the die-off symptoms. By this time, each of the five steps has attributed to the decrease of the population of the Candida. Of course, as the members have discovered, the commercial probiotics will kill off more of the infestation simply because the bacteria are slowly beginning to build a negative environment for the Candida infestation.

    In my experience as well as that of others, the probiotics do not have to wait until the “biggest amount of colonies are gone” in order to help in the elimination as it often causes severe die-off.

    Able

    #86660

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    Able900 wrote: In my experience as well as that of others, the probiotics do not have to wait until the “biggest amount of colonies are gone” in order to help in the elimination as it often causes severe die-off.

    I think the research supports this too. A bunch of studies have demonstrated marked reductions in candida colonies after probiotic therapy. Nobody’s suggesting this alone provides a cure, but I don’t see why you wouldn’t make use of a tool that provides proven benefits early on. Maybe you don’t want to chuck $100/month at commercial probiotics, but are things really that black and white? Fermented foods are readily available or easily made and not all supplements are expensive or need to be used excessively for results.

    #86674

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    I agree that supplements, icluding Probiotics won’t do any damage if they are taken during the first phase of a fungal elimination program. What I am absolutely sure is candida won’t leave terrain even if you take the highest dose of Probiotic available and Immune Boosters. The intestinal colonization of candida albicans isn’t displaced by bacterias. Candida survive and colonize in the presence of bacteria since we are born. They share space in our mucus membranes where there is a degree of antagonism between them.
    If I were to take Probiotics, I will do it at a time when candida colonization be reduced. Again, as I said before, if you have enough money to spend, they won’t do any damage if you take them all the time and may offer some help to speed the recover.
    B. Subtilis and B. Laterosporus are the TWO main pharmaceutical grade probiotic offering antifungal activity. B. Subtilis is the base of Threelac. I have spend hundreds buying both and taken them as part of an anticandida treatment with strict diet and antifungals. High amount of them, plus Dr.Ohhira Probiotic 12 Plus didn’t correct my yeast overgrowth. I have taken many probiotic brands, any of them justified the money I spent. It is thought that 4 ounces of human fecal matter has around 4500 billions of bacterias divided in more than 400 species. I have taken this amount several times, rectal and orally. My candidiasis continued its party inside my colon.
    I don’t find the way bacteria can eliminate a fungal growth, neither logically nor practically using my body as a “guinea pig”.

    Jorge.

    #86679

    Able900
    Spectator
    Topics: 92
    Replies: 4811

    dvjorge wrote: I agree that supplements, icluding Probiotics won’t do any damage if they are taken during the first phase of a fungal elimination program. What I am absolutely sure is candida won’t leave terrain even if you take the highest dose of Probiotic available and Immune Boosters. The intestinal colonization of candida albicans isn’t displaced by bacterias. Candida survive and colonize in the presence of bacteria since we are born. They share space in our mucus membranes where there is a degree of antagonism between them.
    If I were to take Probiotics, I will do it at a time when candida colonization be reduced. Again, as I said before, if you have enough money to spend, they won’t do any damage if you take them all the time and may offer some help to speed the recover.
    B. Subtilis and B. Laterosporus are the TWO main pharmaceutical grade probiotic offering antifungal activity. B. Subtilis is the base of Threelac. I have spend hundreds buying both and taken them as part of an anticandida treatment with strict diet and antifungals. High amount of them, plus Dr.Ohhira Probiotic 12 Plus didn’t correct my yeast overgrowth. I have taken many probiotic brands, any of them justified the money I spent. It is thought that 4 ounces of human fecal matter has around 4500 billions of bacterias divided in more than 400 species. I have taken this amount several times, rectal and orally. My candidiasis continued its party inside my colon.

    You’ve posted that type of message many times on the forum, yet you always avoid mentioning that you did not use our protocol specifically because, throughout your treatment, you never used homemade yogurt or homemade kefir which are both a major part of the protocol. You’ve stated that fact on the forum in the past. Since your message above was centered on probiotics on which our protocol is obviously based, I believe it would be much fairer to the forum’s protocol if you would bother to post the fact about avoiding kefir and yogurt (both homemade) since it concerns your own protocol.

    I don’t find the way bacteria can eliminate a fungal growth, neither logically nor practically using my body as a “guinea pig”.

    Unfortunately I had to be my own “guinea pig” just as you were since there was no successful protocol available at the time I contracted the overgrowth. I made many mistakes for many months and continued suffering from the full force of the Candida and watching it slowly grow worse until I developed a protocol that I could see and feel working.

    As many are aware of, I’ve been Candida-free for over a year now, and I followed the protocol in a very strict manner. If anyone is curious, I am no longer on the Candida deit and haven’t been for quite some time.

    Able

    #86685

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    Able900 wrote:

    I agree that supplements, icluding Probiotics won’t do any damage if they are taken during the first phase of a fungal elimination program. What I am absolutely sure is candida won’t leave terrain even if you take the highest dose of Probiotic available and Immune Boosters. The intestinal colonization of candida albicans isn’t displaced by bacterias. Candida survive and colonize in the presence of bacteria since we are born. They share space in our mucus membranes where there is a degree of antagonism between them.
    If I were to take Probiotics, I will do it at a time when candida colonization be reduced. Again, as I said before, if you have enough money to spend, they won’t do any damage if you take them all the time and may offer some help to speed the recover.
    B. Subtilis and B. Laterosporus are the TWO main pharmaceutical grade probiotic offering antifungal activity. B. Subtilis is the base of Threelac. I have spend hundreds buying both and taken them as part of an anticandida treatment with strict diet and antifungals. High amount of them, plus Dr.Ohhira Probiotic 12 Plus didn’t correct my yeast overgrowth. I have taken many probiotic brands, any of them justified the money I spent. It is thought that 4 ounces of human fecal matter has around 4500 billions of bacterias divided in more than 400 species. I have taken this amount several times, rectal and orally. My candidiasis continued its party inside my colon.

    You’ve posted that type of message many times on the forum, yet you always avoid mentioning that you did not use our protocol specifically because, throughout your treatment, you never used homemade yogurt or homemade kefir which are both a major part of the protocol. You’ve stated that fact on the forum in the past. Since your message above was centered on probiotics on which our protocol is obviously based, I believe it would be much fairer to the forum’s protocol if you would bother to post the fact about avoiding kefir and yogurt (both homemade) since it concerns your own protocol.

    I don’t find the way bacteria can eliminate a fungal growth, neither logically nor practically using my body as a “guinea pig”.

    Unfortunately I had to be my own “guinea pig” just as you were since there was no successful protocol available at the time I contracted the overgrowth. I made many mistakes for many months and continued suffering from the full force of the Candida and watching it slowly grow worse until I developed a protocol that I could see and feel working.

    As many are aware of, I’ve been Candida-free for over a year now, and I followed the protocol in a very strict manner. If anyone is curious, I am no longer on the Candida deit and haven’t been for quite some time.

    Able

    What I don’t understand about you is what you offer an strong opposition to the way I have ended with my suffering. As a candida sufferer, who MEANS no bussiness, as it will be my position forever, I don’t attack anybody who wants to promote something that have totally worked for him/she. What I have done isn’t complicated, and DOESN’T mean buying a Candida E-BOOK or spending a fortune in the pharmacy,it is simply enemas. I have tried to contribute to those who are really suffering and don’t find answers. When I give an argument, I also give the support. I want people be educated and think by themselves about the problem. I don’t say take GSE or Garlic without saying why. I try to do my best to explains the reasons. Everybody has a brain and can read, think and take decisions. Allow them to read my posts in peace. Period.
    I have noticed how concerned you are with your popularity in the forum. What are you planning for the future ??. Do you want to sell an E-Book after gaining popularity?? During the years, there have been some Candida Treatment E-Books going around the web. What happen is candida sufferers already know that those protocols DON’T work and are a lost of money.
    I have brought my services and testimonies for free, and ALWAYS will be free.
    I mean NO money and NO bussiness, but a good heart.
    At first, your diet was visible. Now, people have to required it from you ?? What comes next ??
    You are so worried about your popularity and credibility that it really concerns me.
    I hope people follow you until the day it be free. If in the future, you mean an E-Book or a paid candida protocol, I hope people be already educated about this syndrome to avoid the bad experience many have lived buying in the web.

    This is an open forum. I am bringing scientific information and have posted the proves of many of them, and still there is an attack against my points coming from you. You never are able to debate with respect any point or opinon. What are you defending ?? ” Your” protocol ?? Like “YOUR” protocol are hundreds in the web. It isn’t a secret than a diet, GSE, coconut oil, garlic, and oregano oil can help to manage this syndrome. Please, allow that people discover by themselves what work or not.
    That is what I do. I don’t care if there are hundreds that follow you as far as the find a solution.
    I am not worried about anything that don’t agree with my thoughts coming from you or anybody, but you react as if you were a genious. Trust me, you are one more who repeat what is found anywhere in the web. Why you don’t respect people freedom of chossing what they want to use or learn ??
    Anything that disagree with you is wrong ??
    If I comment one by one your index post list, you will be in trouble regarding to credibility. I don’t do that because I am not here to contradict your view but to bring help and reward god for the gift he gave me of learning all this. I am not avoiding that people try your ideas, neither turn them around.
    I posted it as an informative post to keep it in the sticky posts as a good resource for thos who are looking for answers and knowledge. I have paid those knowledge with more than 4 years of research day by day. You should respect it in the same way I don’t attack yours in spite I disagree with most of them. You are far away from the real information about this syndrome in my opinion or don’t want to accept it for more significative interests. I am done with you.

    Your postion deserve to be watched.

    Jorge.

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