There's no going back?

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This topic contains 22 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  mrs.candida 6 years ago.

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  • #96441

    mrs.candida
    Member
    Topics: 53
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    After reading the post about die off starting to taper off around week 3. I’m wondering why I still have die off even though it’s been 5 weeks since I last cheated. (two whole weeks of bad eating during the holidays, {hangs head in shame})

    I know everyone’s different and there really is no way of knowing.

    However, I can’t help but wonder if I’ve may have been doing some extreme harm by starting the diet then stopping for a few weeks then starting again, and again. I’ve been on the diet since May of last year. When I go off it’s for about 2 weeks. It seams that each time I go off the diet and come back to it my die off is worse. Does anyone have experience with this?

    #96450

    raster
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    There is a possibility you don’t have candida and have something similar such as h.pylori or SIBO. Die-off shouldn’t last this long and so you may have other bugs in your gut.

    -raster

    #96455

    mrs.candida
    Member
    Topics: 53
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    Thanks Raster.

    One of my tests came up positive for a small amount of h.pylori. I did a few rounds of something my naturopath suggested. I assumed it would be taken care of by the Candida diet. Maybe I should get clear about that.

    Do you really think that Candida die off can’t last 5 weeks? Just in the past few days I’ve felt my energy returning little by little, it’s fleeting. Here’s the symptoms I’m experiencing as part of “die off”: headaches, no energy, rash on stomach, vaginal infections that last from 20 minutes to 2 hours, but never more then a day, ocasional stomach aches, muscle knots in my upper back, pain at the base of my skull, worse fibromyalgia, and ringing in ears

    Why am I so sure that I have Candida? I did the diet and the antifungals for a long time but didn’t give up cheese. When I gave up cheese last spring it took 2 days before I was in so much pain with the worst migraine of my life, I almost went to the emergency room. The rest of the week the headache continued.
    Also, I went to about 15 obgyn’s in my 20’s for a yeast infection. Every one of them said I didn’t have a yeast infection, and there was nothing wrong with me. One day my yeast infections went away and that is exactly when all my REAL health problems started. Haven’t had a yeast infection since, until the little die off reactions.

    I understand there are no tests for Candida, I would like to be sure that’s what I’m dealing with.

    #96461

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
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    There’s so many potential factors, its hard to say what is causing it. You could have a histamine problem, you could have liver issues, you might not be detoxing enough, you could have an immune disorder, etc.

    If you don’t kill it off aggresively with large doses of antifungals, it could also be getting killed and then coming back (if fed by things such as rice, fruit, pork, etc) and thus the numbers don’t change.

    You might also have a different gut flora overgrowth due to low levels of HCL (hydro-chloric acid), etc. Something else might be thriving in there, we just don’t know.

    Some people who don’t detox enough have the candida toxins recirculate throughout their bodies and it never gets released.

    How high of a dose of antifungals have you worked up to?

    -raster

    #96465

    moochpb
    Member
    Topics: 112
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    Sounds like sibo and some yeast. I have both, and my dr has me on olive leaf, gse, uva ursi, pau darco. I’m also taking coconut oil too. I’m allowed one cheat meal a week, then back to diet. Sibo and yeast are gonna be tough to get rid of but I am told a year by my dr. I’d take stool tests if out if you haven’t

    #96468

    hope4eva77
    Member
    Topics: 67
    Replies: 548

    Wow I didn’t know about all this other bacteria! So the medicine is diffrent for this? I have been on and off with the diet and now trying to do it right. I get bad die off everytime but haven’t made it far enough yet to tell

    Mooch what is uvi usi. Or whatever that ur taking sorry if I spells wrong?

    #96470

    moochpb
    Member
    Topics: 112
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    Uva ursi is an antifungal for yeast and bacteria overgrowth. Treatment is really similar and most stuff for yeast works for bacteria. I got stool tested and I have a ton of bad bacteria in my gut. There are a few different supplements to take. The bacteria feeds off sugar and carbs also. I was told mostly sugar more then carbs.

    #96476

    hope4eva77
    Member
    Topics: 67
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    Oh can I get this uva. Ursi online? I can’t go to a natural path I didn’t know bout this bacteria overgrowth also.

    If treatment is the same though than why is Ms candida still having die off? Or it just takes longer because their is more 2 kill off I guess?

    #96477

    Able900
    Spectator
    Topics: 92
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    When you go off of the diet during the treatment, Mrs. C, you’re feeding the Candida and basically reestablishing the population of your infestation. Perhaps it’s not like completely starting over after two full weeks, but depending on the degree of the infestation when you stop the diet, it can be pretty close to starting all over again. So your die-off is worse because there are more Candida to kill.

    I doubt you did any harm to yourself other than reestablishing the infestation and, if you have leaky gut syndrome, it would also grow worse during the two weeks.

    mrs.candida;34897 wrote: I understand there are no tests for Candida, I would like to be sure that’s what I’m dealing with.

    If you’re having die-off symptoms every time you go off the diet and then start back, I don’t know what could cause this other than
    dying Candida toxins.

    Able

    #96499

    moochpb
    Member
    Topics: 112
    Replies: 688

    I m sure you can buy Uva Ursi online, probably still getting die off because she might be cheating for weeks, I cheat only on one meal a week and it isn’t full of sugar at all. I have gotten a little better but its only been about 3 weeks of full doses of what I am on. Im sure it takes longer to get rid of yeast and bacterial overgrowth. I m expecting a year recovery

    #96501

    Kag
    Member
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 402

    Hey Mrs.Candida, is it possible that some of the die-off symptoms you are experiencing is your fibromyalgia kicking up? I know sometimes when you change your diet and things go out of whack, everything will go out of whack for a while. I know fibro. can do a lot of the same things as candida.

    #96511

    mrs.candida
    Member
    Topics: 53
    Replies: 452

    Some people who don’t detox enough have the candida toxins recirculate throughout their bodies and it never gets released.

    This is what I suspect is happening. The first time I experienced horrible die off , I experienced toxins coming out of my skin in the form of nasty tiny white pustules all over my arms. Also detox for me has been brutal, two times I considered going into the emergency room because of the pain brought on by the migraine. I read that others are working during this period, there’s no way I could even get out of bed.

    How high of a dose of antifungals have you worked up to?

    (I’m a little sensitive about answering this question. I use muscle testing to determine how much of a medicine or supplement my body needs. I know it’s risky but I’m out here in uncharted territory, I also research to make sure I can’t overdose)

    I’ve worked up to 8,000 mg of Caprylic Acid

    and 12 SF722

    Coconut oil at least a spoonful when I’m cooking a meal so 2-3 times a day.

    (i was waiting for the die off to stop until I add in other antifungals)

    Mooch,

    I’d take stool tests if out if you haven’t

    I have , but what are you suggesting them for? SIBO? no ones ever mentioned it to me, and I don’t have any stomach issues. Two naturopaths looked at my stool test the first one was stumped because she said it was normal. The second one said I had a little h.pylori.

    Able! Hello!

    When you go off of the diet during the treatment, Mrs. C, you’re feeding the Candida and basically reestablishing the population of your infestation. Perhaps it’s not like completely starting over after two full weeks, but depending on the degree of the infestation when you stop the diet, it can be pretty close to starting all over again. So your die-off is worse because there are more Candida to kill.

    Yes, of course, makes sense. However it makes me think back to my original reasoning for this post. Why is it that if I eat sugar or wheat I hurt almost instantly. I never had any problems consuming certain foods before starting this diet. That’s what I meant by “no going back”. I actually feel sicker now then I did last May when I started the diet, and now I have real food sensitivities something I never had before.

    If you’re having die-off symptoms every time you go off the diet and then start back, I don’t know what could cause this other than
    dying Candida toxins.

    My thoughts exactly.

    Hi Kag,

    Hey Mrs.Candida, is it possible that some of the die-off symptoms you are experiencing is your fibromyalgia kicking up? I know sometimes when you change your diet and things go out of whack, everything will go out of whack for a while. I know fibro. can do a lot of the same things as candida.

    Yes, there are only three circumstances under which I suffer from the fibromayalgia pain 1. I ate sugar 2. I’m experiencing die off 3. My monthly cycle I’m convinced that the fibromyalgia is a symptom of the candida and they are not two separate things.
    So if I haven’t had sugar and it’s not that time of the month.

    I really appreciate all your replies. Thank You!

    #96526

    shayfo
    Member
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 668

    Yes, of course, makes sense. However it makes me think back to my original reasoning for this post. Why is it that if I eat sugar or wheat I hurt almost instantly. I never had any problems consuming certain foods before starting this diet. That’s what I meant by “no going back”. I actually feel sicker now then I did last May when I started the diet, and now I have real food sensitivities something I never had before.

    I think this is possibly a combination of being more in touch with your body (so you just notice more), and also the way your immune system responds (which may be a bigger reaction). When I quit eating gluten a few years ago, my sensitivity to it sky-rocketed, it seemed, when I would accidentally eat something (it took a while to work out the details, ha). I became slightly less sensitive after a year, but even now, it requires very little gluten for me to notice symptoms. I suspect that after years of fighting a continuous onslaught of gluten, my immune system was like “oh hey, cool, a break,” and then when I would eat or touch the wrong thing, it would be like “OMG WHAT ARE YOU DOING, DUMMY, NOOO.” Maybe your immune system just has more resources for the attack now?

    Also, whoa, I had never thought about fibromyalgia being related to candida. Whoa.

    #96527

    mrs.candida
    Member
    Topics: 53
    Replies: 452

    Thanks Shay!
    That’s interesting, did you have a psychical sensitivity to gluten before you went gluten free?
    I didn’t, it only came up in my food allergy tests so I cut it out. It’s been 4 years since I cut gluten out of my healthy diet. What I mean by that is that I would have a meal containing gluten about once a month. (this is prior to starting the candida diet last May) I would never get any kind of reaction from the gluten meal. I, like you, have been on some form of restrictive diet for the last 4 years, I would like to think I was approaching it with total body awareness.

    Cheating for 2 weeks during the holidays taught me so much about my body. I’m actually quite glad I did it. Here’s what I learned:
    ~If I eat sugar I will get raged! Yes, uncontrollable anger, and it will happen immediately or up to 12 hours later.
    ~It takes about 5 days of eating wheat and sugar for my fibromyalgia to return
    ~now when I eat wheat my stomach hurts
    ~If I eat wheat and gluten I might have to wake up to vomit in the night

    I’m interested in this theory that my immune system may have a bigger reaction. Could that mean that it’s healing, since it can now recognize these problem foods and is sending me warnings by way of the symptoms?

    #96528

    shayfo
    Member
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 668

    It seems possible that your immune system has more energy to put into attacking wheat when it shows up once in a while since you’re not constantly keeping it busy/downtrodden.

    I definitely noticed a physical/contact issue with gluten several months to a year before quitting eating it…I just didn’t realize that was the problem. I started using “natural” shampoo for my crazy dandruff (which turned out to be a gluten-allergy symptom!), and the shampoo I was using contained hydrolyzed wheat protein. It made my scalp SO much worse! Like, painful and insanely itchy and it would end up weeping/bleeding from the combination of being super inflamed and me itching it. I only made the connection somewhat later.

    Sugar rage!! I believe it. There’s an article I posted on Orka’s grains thread that discusses gluten-related behavioral/neurological symptoms, too. It’s pretty interesting.

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