Settling into probiotics

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This topic contains 9 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Rebecca 6 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #86853

    Rebecca
    Member
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 6

    Hi

    I started the candida diet about three months ago and followed it strictly and thoroughly for the first couple of months. I took various antifungals, eliminated almost all sugar and didn’t ‘treat’ myself with naughty foods. I also took probiotics, although I discovered that the ones I were taking were not strong enough. I therefore ordered myself some very high strength ones, but had decided to have colonic irrigation to wash away the any candida remnants and saved them for after this.

    I had one colonic irrigation treatment and the lady confirmed that there was candida present, but not in absolutely huge amounts. This would make sense as I had followed the diet well and no longer experienced die off. My symptoms were also at least 85% better (and I am a girl, so periods and hormones have a bit of an effect as well, which I imagine will take a few monthly cycles to get completely settled). After the treatment I began the good probiotics and had diarrhea a couple of times and a bit of wind, but after a week was feeling fairly settled.

    I then went back for a second colonic (she had recommended to have three at weekly intervals although I was never going to have them regularly long term and I already had my aftercare organised). This time she could see no candida present, apart from the tiniest bit at the end of the treatment which she said would have come from higher up my colon than the last treatment had been able to sweep clean.

    Again I have taken the high strength probiotic each day to replenish all my good guys so there can be no room for any baddies! This is the probiotic I take – http://www.biocare.co.uk/default.aspx?GroupGuid=29&ProductGuid=76030&PageItemGroupGuid=1052#productAnchor – it is Biocare Forte Plus with a count of 75billion per capsule.

    Thing is, over a week later I am getting dreadful trapped wind at night that is uncomfortable for a few hours and then comes out. As I already have emotional issues associated with my tummy it’s a bit upsetting! I have not missed a day and am prepared to put up with this, but my question is, how long should I expect to wait before it settles back down again? Is this normal? It has been nine days since my last colonic (I am not having a third as I feel two has been enough). I am continuing to keep the sugar down, to take coconut oil, garlic and another anitfungal (though in smaller amounts than I was at the start) and I also have L glutamine, milk thistle and digestive enzyme.

    Is this probiotic okay? Am I doing something wrong that’s making it windy and unsettled, or will it right itself in a few days/weeks? Is it a sign the candida is coming back (which I most fear) or is it simply various bacteria struggling to be top dog down there?

    I’d love some feedback – thanks, guys. xx

    #86854

    Able900
    Spectator
    Topics: 92
    Replies: 4811

    I don’t know how much experienced help you’ll receive from this forum as most of the members haven’t used colonics as part of the treatment, and they are advised against using thse by many experts including myself.

    Did you research the possible problems that often come with colonics? I’ll mention just a few.

    The biggest problem is that you’ve probably washed a huge portion of flora out of your system with the colonics, and rebuilding a beneficial number of flora basically needs to start all over again. Your intestinal tract needs certain bacteria and chemicals to work properly. The colonics can strip the body of those substances it needs to allow your digestion and colon to work properly. This could be what is going on right now with your problem.

    It’s also possible for the force of the water pressure or the equipment itself to puncture the wall of your intestine during a colonic. This allows substances from your intestine to enter other parts of the body which can create health situations.

    In additoin, the large intestines absorb healthy substances such as potassium and sodium from the food you eat. Colonics can remove too much from our body too quickly which can cause an electrolyte imbalance.

    These are just a few reasons of why they’re not advocated on the forum.

    The Biocare probiotics appears to contain only 4 strains of bacteria, is that correct? If so, this isn’t near enough strains. The billions will work, but in time you would need to take at least two or maybe three capsules a day considering the colonics. Also, homemade kefir would add more strains. Read the following post for more information about this.
    Probiotics

    Able

    #86950

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    One possibility for why you are getting gas after protein is because your body isn’t producing enough HCL (hydrochloric acid). I tried out zypan and have been taking it for awhile, and it can completely eliminate or reduce gas. I highly recommend it.

    -raster

    #87017

    Latka
    Member
    Topics: 5
    Replies: 128

    I’ve had a fair share of colonics earlier on. I do remember that it took me a long time to get back to normal with my gut afterwards. My biggest problem was that I lost my bowel movements and had to re-train myself to go by myself again (though they claim that colonics are supposed to help with that). I also remember sometimes having some bloating afterwards as if my gut was just irritated. I also had problems with gas but never really thought it might have been caused by the colonic (though it is possible).

    You will need to rebuild the gutflora by taking high strength probiotics. These may also cause gas and bloating to begin with, but this should not last a long time. You may also want to take some prebiotics (i.e. FOS) to feed the good bacteria in the gut. The colonic lady should have told you about all of this.

    #87030

    Rebecca
    Member
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 6

    Hi

    Yes, I thoroughly researched the pros and cons before having the colonic and made sure I had ready a supply of high strength probiotics, created by the company of one of my favourite nutritionists. I literally started on these probiotics within 90 minutes of having my colonics (I only had two, so have had no problems with my bowels becoming reliant on them) and have kept up with them ever since. I am also eating probiotic yoghurt most days as well. I supplement with a professional quality garlic each day so I’m getting prebiotic benefits from that and I also have porridge oats each day which also have prebiotic qualities I believe.

    Latka – my probiotics also contain some FOS, so hopefully that is good! It is only two weeks since I had my colonic, so perhaps I am being impatient – if you say it took you a while to get back to normal I won’t worry about it yet! Just wanted to make sure I hadn’t made some hideous mistake somewhere that was going to make all my candida come back!

    Raster, that is interesting, thank you. If the problems persist after a few weeks I will look into that. I have started to take my probiotics in the evening so that most of the wind will occur overnight and won’t inconvenience me too much during the day. Hopefully it will all settle down soon if I’ve not done anything very wrong!

    Thanks xx

    #87047

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    I don’t think it’s possible to research colonics thoroughly, because like many expensive alternative healthcare treatments that espouse amazing benefits, they haven’t been studied in much detail, and you’re left trying to weigh up anecdotes. 

    I came close to getting one at one point. The only legitimate research I could find was about the proven dangers, but it was a complete lack of guarantee that the integrity of the gut flora would be maintained that put me off in the end. 

    Probiotics can’t replace whatever the water washes away. Apparently a “backup” is kept in the appendix that repopulates the bowels after diarrhoea, but how is it affected by 45-minutes of rinsing? Are you going to rely on a colonic hydrotherapist with no understanding of even basic microbiology when your gut health is on the line? 

    No 20-year-old faeces have ever been witnessed by colon surgeons, and few, if any, of their claims seem to have any backing whatsoever. I was under the impression that these practitioners, as well as chiropractors and other CAM specialists, were legitimate. They’re all over town with fancy clinics and years of education, but I didn’t realise it’s all a load of pseudoscience that really means nothing without any evidence. You might as well see a Scientologist for health advice for all the crazy stuff they believe in.

    #87051

    Rebecca
    Member
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 6

    I didn’t want my gut flora maintained – that was the whole point of having one. Having suffered virtually all my life with anxiety, panic and then later IBS, with hindsight all probably caused by candida, I wanted the clean sweep that a colonic would provide. I knew it would wipe out all the flora and I saw this as a good thing, so that now I have a healthier diet and am taking all the right supplements I can create a healthy and good balance from scratch. Out with the good went a whole lot of bad and I will work to replace the good and get it better than I ever had it before.

    With respect I’ve already had the colonic so I can’t go back and undo it. I’m not planning on having more or often, but as I say, I wanted an extreme clear out to begin again and do it right this time. What I was asking for was some advice as to whether I should be doing anything else at this stage, how long people generally take to settle into their probiotics and whether or not I should be worried about the slight unsettled feelings I’ve had this last few days. And for the record my colonic hydrotherapist is also a nutritionist and as this whole candida protocol is built on the foundations of good and thorough nutrition I don’t think anyone here can claim that nutrition isn’t ‘real’.

    #87074

    Latka
    Member
    Topics: 5
    Replies: 128

    Hi Rebecca,

    just a thought: you wrote that you take the probiotic in the evening and you have wind afterwards during the night. And since your probiotic contains FOS it might be this that is causing the wind. The wind is a byproduct of bacteria feeding, ANY bacteria; so if you are feeding the good bacteria with what they need (FOS) then there may be increased wind. I certainly get this from having FOS. I take my FOS separately and have noticed that if I don’t take that much in one go then there is less of a problem.

    #87087

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    Rebecca wrote: I didn’t want my gut flora maintained – that was the whole point of having one. Having suffered virtually all my life with anxiety, panic and then later IBS, with hindsight all probably caused by candida, I wanted the clean sweep that a colonic would provide. I knew it would wipe out all the flora and I saw this as a good thing, so that now I have a healthier diet and am taking all the right supplements I can create a healthy and good balance from scratch. Out with the good went a whole lot of bad and I will work to replace the good and get it better than I ever had it before.

    With respect I’ve already had the colonic so I can’t go back and undo it. I’m not planning on having more or often, but as I say, I wanted an extreme clear out to begin again and do it right this time. What I was asking for was some advice as to whether I should be doing anything else at this stage, how long people generally take to settle into their probiotics and whether or not I should be worried about the slight unsettled feelings I’ve had this last few days. And for the record my colonic hydrotherapist is also a nutritionist and as this whole candida protocol is built on the foundations of good and thorough nutrition I don’t think anyone here can claim that nutrition isn’t ‘real’.

    When I say “maintain integrity”, I’m referring to keeping hold of what beneficial bacterial species you can, which should number in the 100s. Reducing diversity only benefits pathogens, and once a species is gone, it won’t come back unless it’s replaced, and no supplement can achieve such a thing. Typical probiotic strains represent a minor fraction of what would be found in a healthy gut, and won’t be found in the top 50 most populous species, if they’re indigenous at all. You can learn more about the complexity involved in replacing gut flora on Dr. Ayers blog.

    I’m not saying you’ve necessarily wiped out any bacteria, and you probably don’t need to worry if you don’t plan on having any more. I was just taking the opportunity to share my thoughts on colonics because I came close to having one, and now feel incredibly sceptical about unproven, invasive treatments that people are happy to provide for a lot of money. Also, I’ve read books written by nutritionists and I’d be extremely sceptical about them too.

    Maybe I should apologise for not directly addressing your post as a result. I’d say it’s quite typical to experience bloating when taking strong probiotics. Many people experience the same on much lower doses than 75bn. Any change you make to your gut through diet, enemas, introducing bacteria etc will involve some period of adaptation. Simply increasing vegetable consumption is enough to give people similar symptoms for 1-2 weeks, as can suddenly eliminating other foods. You also had pre-existing issues, so there are a lot of factors involved, and you may need to be prepared for periods like this as you experiment to find out what helps and what doesn’t.

    I wouldn’t assume it’s candida at this point, and would finish off the bottle while maintaining the diet. Like Latka said, people with IBS don’t tend to react well to FOS (or any kind of FODMAP), and this might be something you’ll have to consider while trying to treat yourself. In terms of fibre and prebiotics, a quality over quantity approach might be beneficial. More doesn’t necessarily mean better, and even friendly strains of bacteria can cause issues if they get out of control.

    #87218

    Rebecca
    Member
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 6

    Latka, thank you! My probiotic does have FOS in (I chose it especially thinking it would be good for me 🙁 ) so I have temporarily stopped taking it. Instead I have reduced my probio dosage down to a more reasonable 8-12 billion a day for now (no FOS!) to get myself onto them more gradually!

    Javizy thank you and of course you’re right – I did have a sensitive stomach to begin with. I am pleased to hear that it may be something other than the candida returning as even though I am now not following the diet so strictly, I am by no means back to my bad old ways and nor do I intend to be! I think I just wanted someone to reassure me that there were explanations other than the return of candida, as I have been very jittery and anxious the last couple of days, then I worry that the candida is back and get even more worked up! In all likelihood it is the time of month making me edgy, but I’m just hypersensitive to every mood change and tummy sensation at the moment and I’m terrified that even if I keep the candida at bay I’ll never manage to be ‘normal’ in terms of my guts and moods again.

    Thanks people xx

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