Seeking guidance from DVJorge for intracellular yeast

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  • #119029

    Katynoyesparker
    Participant
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 11

    Hi I am new here. I’ve had intracellular yeast for almost two years. I think I’ve finally found a doctor to treat me with antifungals. I’ve read Crandall’s paper, have had two consults with her etc. I am hoping to start in fluconazole and lamisil. DVJorge, I was wondering if I could ask you some specifics about your experience with healing this specifically, die off, etc. would it be ok to email you or can I just post here? I’d be grateful for some input.
    Katy

    #119032

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    Katynoyesparker;57550 wrote: Hi I am new here. I’ve had intracellular yeast for almost two years. I think I’ve finally found a doctor to treat me with antifungals. I’ve read Crandall’s paper, have had two consults with her etc. I am hoping to start in fluconazole and lamisil. DVJorge, I was wondering if I could ask you some specifics about your experience with healing this specifically, die off, etc. would it be ok to email you or can I just post here? I’d be grateful for some input.
    Katy

    Just post here.! In this way, everybody can learn and share experiences.

    Jorge.

    #119034

    Katynoyesparker
    Participant
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 11

    Thanks! Ok so I have vulvodynia/intracellular yeast. Have had it for two years. It got better on antifungals then after stopping antifungals and mistakenly taking an antibiotic it’s back. I am currently taking Diflucan 200 mg and Itraconazole 100 mg plus oral Nystatin. I’ve found a doc who is willing to let me try the diflucan plus lamisil. My question is this: I think I remember Crandall saying if symptoms worsen at first it is die off and it means it’s working. Do you agree? My symptoms ( itching and burning) increase when on r antifungals. I’m only in week two of Dif and Itra. At what point does the intense die off stop and do you start seeing improvements? I’m sure it’s different for everyone I am just wondering what your experience was as I know you had this.
    Thanks,

    Katy

    #119035

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    Katynoyesparker;57555 wrote: Thanks! Ok so I have vulvodynia/intracellular yeast. Have had it for two years. It got better on antifungals then after stopping antifungals and mistakenly taking an antibiotic it’s back. I am currently taking Diflucan 200 mg and Itraconazole 100 mg plus oral Nystatin. I’ve found a doc who is willing to let me try the diflucan plus lamisil. My question is this: I think I remember Crandall saying if symptoms worsen at first it is die off and it means it’s working. Do you agree? My symptoms ( itching and burning) increase when on r antifungals. I’m only in week two of Dif and Itra. At what point does the intense die off stop and do you start seeing improvements? I’m sure it’s different for everyone I am just wondering what your experience was as I know you had this.
    Thanks,

    Katy

    I don’t know how to start. Anyway, I don’t like the idea of taking Fluconazole and Itraconazole together. These are two very close drugs belonging to the same family. I will try Fluconazole first. This is my first advice. Itraconazole has slightly more tissue penetration than Diflucan, but overall are very close.

    An intracellular candidiasis occurs when cell-mediated immunity is low during an active superficial infection. Many times, this is triggered by antibiotic intake since they affect the immune system and disrupt the protective flora. There are some things to consider here. First, the azoles and Lamisil are Fungistatic. They don’t kill candida cells but inhibit their growth. With these kind of drugs, it is necessary long term therapies, sometimes several months. Your Dr must monitor your liver enzymes periodically.
    Another thing to consider is what candida species is causing the infection. No all species are susceptible to the same drug. There are some intrinsically resistant species that needs drug combination and more aggressive treatments.

    Another problem is the acquired resistance. Candida Albicans develop resistance to Fluconazole many times. Lamisil and Fluconazole has shown “in vivo” synergism against resistant candida albicans strains. There are many drug combinations that can be used to treat resistant candida cases.

    Answering your question, Yes, when you feel a reaction on the infected area ( increased burning, redness, itching, etc ) is a symptom that the yeast is agitated because of the drug. This happens when the drug is working. Don’t stop the medicine to avoid resistance.

    I think Crandall can guide you better than anybody to overcome it. I don’t know if you have intestinal symptoms or if you suspect you have an intestinal yeast reservoir. This is very important since the yeast has influence on the immune system.

    It probably benefits you to treat the infection locally too. Using Boric Acid, Clotrimazole,etc. Some anti-inflammatory creams combined with antifungals also help.

    Jorge

    #119037

    Katynoyesparker
    Participant
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 11

    Thanks Jorge. Appreciate the info. Yes I am combining the Lamisil and Fluconazole because of the synergy they provide. I, like you, am sort of doing this on my own as I have tries dr two years to get doctors to treat me. Yeast was fiynd but the strain didn’t grow in culture but if I feel the die off I can assume I have the right drug, correct?

    I am taking oral nystatin powder to combat intestinal yeast as well and lactoferrin.

    Did you experience. An increase in symptoms with die off when you started the lamisil/azole combo and how long did it last before you started seeing improvement? Also I know you counseled a woman a few years ago…Gibby…in the forums. Did she resolve her problem with he antifungals? Is she still active on the forums? Thank you so much for your time

    #119039

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    Katynoyesparker;57558 wrote: Thanks Jorge. Appreciate the info. Yes I am combining the Lamisil and Fluconazole because of the synergy they provide. I, like you, am sort of doing this on my own as I have tries dr two years to get doctors to treat me. Yeast was fiynd but the strain didn’t grow in culture but if I feel the die off I can assume I have the right drug, correct?

    I am taking oral nystatin powder to combat intestinal yeast as well and lactoferrin.

    Did you experience. An increase in symptoms with die off when you started the lamisil/azole combo and how long did it last before you started seeing improvement? Also I know you counseled a woman a few years ago…Gibby…in the forums. Did she resolve her problem with he antifungals? Is she still active on the forums? Thank you so much for your time

    I have helped many women with this condition. I am aware of some of them totally cured but others disappear. I don’t know anything about her.

    When I used the Fluconazole/Lamisil combo, it was effective at first but didn’t clean the infection totally. I eradicated it taking 400 mg of Ketoconazole daily for 2 months. Ketoconazole must be watched close because it is aggressive for the liver.
    Things aren’t totally known with this condition. It is only trying different drugs and persisting that you get results and a final cure.

    Jorge

    #119042

    Katynoyesparker
    Participant
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 11

    Thanks . For how long did you do the Fluconazole/lamisil combo and did you do immunotherapy? Also is there a way I can get in contact with any of the women who were cured? Are they till on the forum or do you know how I might contact them?
    Thanks again

    #119044

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    Katynoyesparker;57563 wrote: Thanks . For how long did you do the Fluconazole/lamisil combo and did you do immunotherapy? Also is there a way I can get in contact with any of the women who were cured? Are they till on the forum or do you know how I might contact them?
    Thanks again

    I haven’t kept contact with any of them,sorry. Don’t panic, you will reach a cure. It is real. The yeast is inside the cells and the response to antifungals confirms it. Pay close attention to the burning sensation 1 hour or 2 after the antifungal dose. 400 mg of Ketoconazole is a good alternative if your first intent fail. I hope you be lucky.!

    I took Fluconazole and Lamisil for 3 months. The last month I reduced the Lamisil dose to half (100mg) It wasn’t enough in my case, even when I got a lot better. I stopped because I didn’t see more progress with the combination. Also, consider how hard those drugs are.

    I like the Diflucan/Ibuprofen combination. However, I am not sure how long you can take Ibuprofen diary. Fluconazole is powerful and effective but candida acquires resistance to it easy, at least in my experience. Ibuprofen reverses the acquired resistance “in vitro” and with animal models. When the resistance is intrinsic, you need to change the drug. You need to consult all this with your Dr. Go step by step. If the first combination isn’t effective, you can try another one.

    As I told you, it is a gambling. You don’t know what species is there and if the drug will be effective or not.

    #119045

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    Saturday, March 31, 2012, 15:18 – 15:30
    Effective reversion of fluconazole resistance by ibuprofen in an animal model
    S. Costa-de-Oliveira*, I. M Miranda, E. Ricardo, A. Silva-Dias, A. G Rodrigues, C. Pina-Vaz (Porto, PT)
    Objectives: Ibuprofen was found to be an efficient reverter of in vitro fluconazole resistance due to overexpression of efflux pumps1,2; however its in vivo effect is still unproven.The aim of our study was to evaluate in an animal model the effect of ibuprofen associated to fluconazole in the treatment of an invasive infection by a resistant C. albicans isolate.
    Methods: A C. albicans resistant (R) strain to fluconazole was obtained by subculturing with serial concentrations of fluconazole a susceptible strain (S) during 30 days. Minimal inhibitory concentrations (MIC) to fluconazole was determined in the presence of 100µg/ml of ibuprofen (IBU), an efflux pump blocker1,2.
    Comparative transcriptome analysis between the S and the induced resistant strain (R) incubated with and without ibuprofen (RI) was performed using C. albicans DNA microarrays from Agilent Technologies.
    The in vivo study was carried out according to the murine candidiasis model. Female BALB/c mice were infected with 5×105 cells in 0.1 ml of sterile saline via the lateral tail vein with the S strain (three groups) or the R strain (three groups). Antifungal therapy was administered intraperitoneally with FLC or IBU or FLC+IBU on both groups 3 hours after microbial challenge and repeated once a day for a total of four days. The kidney fungal burden was determined.
    Results: Ibuprofen decreased azole MIC values, the R phenotype changing to S. Microarray analysis identified 836 and 1517 with differential expression in R and RI strains, respectively. The R strain showed overexpression of CDR11, ERG251, CDR4 and the transcription factor UPC2. In the RI and in the S strains those genes were down regulated.
    FLC showed to be effective only in the treatment of the infection by the S strain, reducing dramatically the fungal burden. Interestingly, in mice infected with the R strain but treated with FLC + IBU, a significant decrease in the fungal burden was observed. In the absence of FLC, IBU did not display antifungal activity per se.
    Conclusions: The in vivo synergic effect between fluconazole and ibuprofen demonstrated herein may represent a hopeful future approach for a better management of antifungal resistance conferred by efflux pump overexpression.
    1. Pina-Vaz, C., et al. J Antimicrob Chemother 2005, 4: 678-85

    Antifungal activity of ibuprofen alone and in combination with fluconazole against Candida species.
    Pina-Vaz C, Sansonetty F, Rodrigues AG, Martinez-De-Oliveira J, Fonseca AF, Mårdh PA.
    Source
    Department of Microbiology, Porto School of Medicine, University of Porto, Portugal. [email protected]
    Abstract
    Ibuprofen, a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug, exhibited antimicrobial activity against Candida albicans and non-albicans strains. At 10 mg/ml, ibuprofen showed a rapid cidal activity against exponential growth phase C. albicans, accompanied by rapid and extensive leakage of intracellular K+, permeation to propidium iodide, lysis of spheroplasts and severe membrane ultrastructural alterations. These results indicate that the killing of Candida cells is due to direct damage to the cytoplasmic membrane. At 5 mg/ml, ibuprofen inhibited growth; however, it did not kill the yeasts and did not directly affect the cytoplasmic membrane. Evaluation of yeast metabolic vitality with the fluorescent probe FUN-1 showed that growth inhibition induced by the fungistatic drug concentration was due to metabolic alterations. The combination of ibuprofen with fluconazole resulted in synergic activity with eight of the 12 Candida strains studied, including four of the five fluconazole-resistant strains. The MICs of fluconazole for the fluconazole-resistant strains decreased 2-128-fold when the drug was associated with ibuprofen. When in combination with fluconazole, MICs for ibuprofen decreased by up to 64-fold for all the 12 strains studied. These results point to the practicability of using ibuprofen, alone or in combination with azoles, in the treatment of candidosis, particularly when applied topically, taking advantage of the drug’s antifungal and anti-inflammatory properties.

    Ibuprofen may possess a marked therapeutic potential, particularly due to its ability to revert resistance to fluconazole. The serum
    concentration of ibuprofen needed to achieve an anti-inflammatory
    effect27 is lower than the concentration needed to obtain an antifungal effect.9
    This concentration is thus sufficient to induce the
    blockade of efflux pumps and to revert resistance to azoles. The
    anti-inflammatory and analgesic properties of ibuprofen might also
    represent an additional advantage. Additionally, our study opens
    new perspectives for treatment of candidosis by rehabilitating an
    important drug like fluconazole.
    Back to top

    #119046

    Katynoyesparker
    Participant
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 11

    Thanks Jorge. I am like you…navigating this alone. I have a doctor willing to prescribe meds but without much knowledge about any of this so I am working in my plan and praying the first attempt is successful. I’ve read that you mention topically don’t get to intracellular yeast but you recommended creams or boric acid for me. I’m not sure which way to go…

    And how often did you receiver liver screenings and did you ever have elevated enzymes? Did you take any immune complexes like lactoferrin or thymex etc? Sorry for all my questions!

    Katy

    #119047

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    Katynoyesparker;57567 wrote: Thanks Jorge. I am like you…navigating this alone. I have a doctor willing to prescribe meds but without much knowledge about any of this so I am working in my plan and praying the first attempt is successful. I’ve read that you mention topically don’t get to intracellular yeast but you recommended creams or boric acid for me. I’m not sure which way to go…

    And how often did you receiver liver screenings and did you ever have elevated enzymes? Did you take any immune complexes like lactoferrin or thymex etc? Sorry for all my questions!

    Katy

    Katy,
    It is better to try systemically and locally. Creams don’t reach the intracellular yeast to reach a cure. However, reducing the inflammation helps. Also, there are vehicles you can use to get better tissue penetration. You can add one of these to your cream. Just google them.

    Jorge.

    #119048

    Katynoyesparker
    Participant
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 11

    Vehicles like oils? I’m not sure what you mean…thanks

    #119049

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    Katynoyesparker;57569 wrote: Vehicles like oils? I’m not sure what you mean…thanks

    DMSO is one of them.! It is cheap..!

    Why you don’t add Clotrimazole to this formula. Make your own cream.! Ibuprofen is also antifungal and anti-inflammatory.

    Read:

    This is our best topical ibuprofen formula.

    First, purchase ibuprofen, either generic or branded, such as Advil, in GEL caps. You can also use naproxen (Aleve) GEL caps if you want. Forget aspirin.

    Poke a hole in the gel cap with a sturdy pin (or cut with sharp scissors or razor blade) and squeeze out the contents into a common skin lotion of your own choice. Vaseline Intensive Care lotion works well. Mix together thoroughly and apply topically to the area of pain.

    Make it up fresh each time. Keep in mind that this is a real medicine. It is not a crappy four hour topical pain relief product. For some people, a single application of this formulation alleviates their pain for days.

    You should experiment on yourself to find the right dose for your needs. Begin with one gel cap mixed with one tablespoon of skin cream. You can always add another gel cap if you need a stronger dose, or use two tablespoons of lotion if you need a lower dose. However, DO NOT apply the contents of the gel cap directly to the skin. It is too strong. It must be mixed with a skin lotion.
    In the US, we can purchase 99% pure DMSO in health food stores and off the Net. To enhance the effects of the ibuprofen, add a few drops (with an eye dropper) of DMSO to the tablespoon of lotion/ibuprofen. This will enhance the penetration of the ibuprofen into the skin. If you cannot get DMSO, add a few drops of orange oil to the lotion. Orange oil, sold in all health food stores, enhances the penetration of products through the skin.

    There you have it. Feedback is invited. This simple formulation really does alleviate arthritic and muscle pain.

    Stephen Martin, Ph.D
    Chief Scientist, Grouppe Kurosawa

    #119050

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    My liver enzymes never went high but I don’t advice you to follow this treatment alone. You need a Dr monitoring you. Liver enzymes should be checked every 3 weeks. You need to watch symptoms of liver toxicity. Dark urine, nausea, yellowish skin and white of the eyes, etc. If you see some, stop immediately.

    Jorge

    #119052

    Katynoyesparker
    Participant
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 11

    One more question for now. Did you taper off the antifungals like Crandall suggests…start taking every other day, then once a week, then every other week etc or did your symptoms just stop so then you stopped the medication? I’m so terrified this wont go away….

    How long did you have it before starting to treat it?

    Katy

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