Questions about Enzymes

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This topic contains 59 replies, has 9 voices, and was last updated by  Vegan Catlady 5 years, 3 months ago.

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  • #115074

    impossible
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    Floggi;53594 wrote:
    I am not implying anything. Just that there may be additives that may influence digestion in some way or another.

    They might break down food. But that’s just one possibility. They might also influence the stomach’s acidity. Or they might influence the bile, somewhat later in the digestion process. They might alter some digestion products or half-products. They might influence the gut bacteria.

    I’m sure there are many more possibilities that I’m overlooking now.

    My statement really boils down to the remark that you are ingesting more than just enzymes when you “take enzymes”. This yet unknown “more” stuff might well have an influence on the digestive process.

    Can you provide examples of these possible additives with evidence of their function and influence on digestion in the absence of enzyme supplementation?

    #115078

    impossible
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    Floggi;53569 wrote:

    Pooping undigested food can occur from a placebo effect?

    Why are you bringing up the subject of pooping undigested food, and why are you implying that this could be caused by the placebo effect? I cannot find any mention of this in this entire thread, so you must have a reason for suggesting this correlation. Would you care informing us about the reasons for making such improbable statements?



    Also, why are you not capable of understanding the obvious implication that I was making of undigested food occurring in stool as a result of the influence of enzyme supplementation ruling out the possibility of placebo effect, without it being explained to you? Please be specific if the cause was “language problems”.

    #115094

    Floggi
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    I’m speaking of additives as a general possibility. I’m not saying that any given product does contain additives. Instead, I’m saying that such products may contain additives.

    In other words, if someone uses enzymes, these enzymes may contain additives, and these additives may have a beneficial effect on digestion.

    raster was the one recommending a certain product. He said this product was beneficial. raster attributed that to the enzymes. I only remarked that these beneficial effects may have been caused by enzymes, but that they may have other causes as well. So all I was saying is: if you experience beneficial effects, do not automatically attribute that to enzymes. There are other possibilities which cannot be ruled out given the provided information.

    That’s all, really. It sounds very logical to me. Not worth a large amount of chatter.

    #115106

    impossible
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    Thank you for at least admitting that what you were saying was baseless speculation.

    Could you answer my second question so we can prevent that experience from happening again in the future? 🙂

    #115133

    Floggi
    Member
    Topics: 1
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    Why are you reacting in such a negative tone?

    My observation may be “baseless speculation” in your view. But that’s only your view. You seem to be implying that no enzyme product contains additives, which would mean that all enzyme products consist of 100% enzymes. Not only is that very unlikely, you also contradict raster’s statement near the start of this thread.

    If, in your view, an enzyme product does contain additives, you are speculating that they are “just there”, without having any effect at all on digestion. That seems unlikely too.

    My view is probably limited. If it is, then please do not belittle me. Instead, be helpful, and prove that either enzyme products do contain additives but these additives have no effect whatsoever, or enzyme products consist of 100% pure enzymes.

    About your second question – what was it exactly that you’d like to know?

    #115174

    impossible
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    Floggi;53654 wrote:
    Why are you reacting in such a negative tone?

    My observation may be “baseless speculation” in your view. But that’s only your view. You seem to be implying that no enzyme product contains additives, which would mean that all enzyme products consist of 100% enzymes. Not only is that very unlikely, you also contradict raster’s statement near the start of this thread.

    If, in your view, an enzyme product does contain additives, you are speculating that they are “just there”, without having any effect at all on digestion. That seems unlikely too.

    My view is probably limited. If it is, then please do not belittle me. Instead, be helpful, and prove that either enzyme products do contain additives but these additives have no effect whatsoever, or enzyme products consist of 100% pure enzymes.

    About your second question – what was it exactly that you’d like to know?

    lol nice try buddy.

    I wasnt being mean. Why are you so intent on making me out to be a mean person?

    You’re statement is the very definition of baseless speculation. You can try to take advantage of the naivety of the readers you are trying to influence, but we’re not going to let that happen. The burden of proof is on you.

    #115175

    impossible
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    Topics: 16
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    Why are you not capable of understanding the obvious implication that I was making of undigested food occurring in stool as a result of the influence of enzyme supplementation ruling out the possibility of placebo effect, without it being explained to you? Please be specific if the cause was “language problems”.

    #115191

    Floggi
    Member
    Topics: 1
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    Are you trying to circumvent the subject?

    I noted that, to my knowledge, it is impossible to make a pill or solution or whatever that consists of 100% enzymes.

    If I am wrong on this point, please do not belittle me, but show me any proof whatsoever that it is possible to create any product that consists 100% of enzymes.

    For now, let’s assume that I am right, and that whatever “enzyme” product you buy, such product does contain ingredients that are not enzymes.

    Now assuming that your “enzyme pill” contains such additives, there are two possibilities:
    a) The additives have no influence whatsoever.
    b) The additives do have an influence.

    I’m assuming that b) is the case. My assumption is supported by raster, near the top of this thread. And my assumption is supported by logic, which says that any producer of digestion-enhancing products tries to, well, enhance digestion. If additives can be used for that purpose, such additives will be included in the “enzyme pill”.

    You may continue calling this reasoning “baseless speculation” as much as you want, but in doing so you only show that you are missing the base that I so elaborately explained.

    You, on the other hand, just state that of the above two possibilities, option a) is true. Without any explanation. All you say is “that’s just how it is, and I refuse to listen to Floggi’s explanation!”

    In all honesty, which of the two opinions is “baseless speculation”, and who of us has provided the most elaborate reasoning?

    #115228

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
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    You made a statement, you have no proof that the statement is true or valid. You are trying your hardest to song and dance & smoke and mirrors your way out of it. I think it is obvious at this point that you are not going to back up your statement because you cant.

    Therefore, I win 🙂

    #115229

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    Why are you not capable of understanding the obvious implication that I was making of undigested food occurring in stool as a result of the influence of enzyme supplementation ruling out the possibility of placebo effect, without it being explained to you? Please be specific if the cause was “language problems”.

    #115244

    TheChosenOne
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    Topics: 34
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    *image*
    popcorn.jpg
    *image*

    #115257

    Floggi
    Member
    Topics: 1
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    impossible;53749 wrote: You made a statement, you have no proof that the statement is true or valid. You are trying your hardest to song and dance & smoke and mirrors your way out of it. I think it is obvious at this point that you are not going to back up your statement because you cant.

    I made a statement. I provided an elaborate explanation; just refer to my previous post.

    You made a statement. You provided no explanation at all. You contradict raster’s observation near the start of this thread, again without any explanation.

    You keep mentioning “baseless speculation”, as you call it. My statements are neither baseless (see above) nor speculation (see above). Your statements are both.

    #115278

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    Floggi;53778 wrote:

    I made a statement. I provided an elaborate explanation;

    with absolutely nothing to back it up.

    I win 🙂

    #115279

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    TheChosenOne;53765 wrote: *image*
    popcorn.jpg
    *image*

    lmfao

    #115281

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    PERFECT article for this thread. Remember, floggi is just a concerned citizen.

    Enzyme myth: All enzymes are destroyed by stomach acid
    Devin Houston, Ph.D.

    This myth states that taking enzyme supplements is a waste of time and money because the enzymes, being proteins, are denatured (destroyed) by the acid in the stomach.

    I actually once believed this statement because it was taught to me in medical school. Not till I was challenged to verify the statement did I find that what I was taught was not completely true. The majority of enzymes, including pancreatic enzymes, are not stable under acid conditions and so are not effective taken orally. There are two exceptions: enzymes that have been enteric-coated (that is, treated with a substance that prevents contact with stomach acid) and PLANT-BASED ENZYMES. The problem with enteric-coated enzymes is that the coating prevents enzymes from working in the stomach. Only in the neutral pH of the small intestine will they finally function. Plant-based enzymes, which comprise the bulk of enzyme supplements, are derived from plant organisms that secrete acid-stable enzymes. These enzymes have been purified and characterized so their pH optimum (acidity/alkalinity at which they work best) is well known and easily determined. The majority of these enzymes can work in a pH range of 2 to 9 with no loss of activity. This is not an opinion. The enzymes can be assayed under lab conditions at different pH and this is easily verified by enzyme manufacturers.

    The ability of enzymes to work in the stomach provides the means by which protease enzymes degrade gluten, casein, soy and other food proteins. The peptides that many find intolerable are degraded or not produced. The stomach actually becomes a “safe house” when someone who does not tolerate dairy ingests these foods. No peptide or protein absorption occurs in the stomach, so one has a couple of hours to use the enzymes to break down the proteins before they move into the small intestine where the bulk of protein/peptide absorption will occur.

    I was humbled years ago when I had to come back and admit to my “challenger” that I was misinformed about plant enzymes and their acid stability. It taught me not to take a teacher’s word, but to verify the subject matter for myself. I highly recommend others do the same.

    – Devin Houston

    🙂

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