Question about a Kefir reaction or die-off?

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This topic contains 9 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Adhri 4 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #67680

    Thomas
    Member
    Topics: 71
    Replies: 605

    Hi guys,
    I had two bad days now and started to feel better in the afternoon. Then I was so hungry after kefir that I had first a glas of kefir and than quite quickly two more. Then my stomach was growing to the size of a small handball and I felt dizzy again, got cold hands and had to lay down. Feel bad again, this gets really under my skin. I was so happy after these terrible two days and then that.

    Is that now a “good” reaction meaning the Kefir is fighting with the candia and the candia is dying, giving me a bad time. Or is it a allergic reaction towards Kefir?

    My mother told me that when I was a child she could not give me breast milk and then they tried cow milk and baby food, which didn’t work for me because I reacted allergic to cow milk. Then they raised me on soya milk.

    Should I stop with the Kefir? Or should I keep eating it. I tried to get Goats milk but winter is hitting us now in the north of Sweden and the goats are not producing milk. I can get first some in spring again the farmer told me.

    I really like to understand the dance of symptoms, how is everything hanging together. For the leaky gut and fighting of the candida I should drink Kefir, but if I am allergic to Kefir that is not working, then again healing the leaky gut should solve the problem of the allergies….oh, boy I am confused.

    cheers
    Thomas

    #67686

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    I used to feel real nauseous, gassy, incredibly drained, tired, with spells of dizziness, anxiety, hot/cold spells, etc, during the die-off. The kefir could simply be pretty hard on the candida now and your body is like “whoa.” I am sure its a big change for the body if you haven’t had beneficial bacteria in a long time; I think that you are having a tough time because you have a very severe case of candida (like me).

    AND…that is a lot of kefir, so you might want to start slow and move up over time like Able suggested.

    -Raster

    #67687

    Able900
    Spectator
    Topics: 92
    Replies: 4811

    Greetings, Thomas.

    I’m really sorry you’ve had such a bad time the last few days. But keep in mind that everyone fighting Candida will experience down times; meaning that suddenly new symptoms, reactions, or sensitivities can show up at any time before the infestation is fully under control.

    To be honest, there’s no way any of us can be certain what caused your stomach problems and dizziness. It could be a type of die-off, but it could also be a reaction to the kefir. But in truth three glasses taken close together is a bit much for something as strong as kefir, and I would definitely stop at one glass from now on.

    But what I would do for this particular problem is to wait three days before having another go at the kefir. Then have only about 2 ounces that first day. The next day raise it to three ounces, and so on until you reach a full 8 ounce glass. Watch for any type of reaction, and if you receive any at all, don’t raise the amount the next day but wait two days before raising it by another ounce. “Slowly” and “gradually” are the key words with a Candida treatment, so is “patience” unfortunately.

    Thomas, also remember that just because you have a few bad days doesn’t mean that your infestation isn’t gradually healing, but just like with any bad illness, the “slow” and “gradual” part of the treatment is especially important when looking at the time it takes for a cure.

    Able

    #67714

    Thomas
    Member
    Topics: 71
    Replies: 605

    Able900 wrote: Greetings, Thomas.

    I’m really sorry you’ve had such a bad time the last few days. But keep in mind that everyone fighting Candida will experience down times; meaning that suddenly new symptoms, reactions, or sensitivities can show up at any time before the infestation is fully under control.

    To be honest, there’s no way any of us can be certain what caused your stomach problems and dizziness. It could be a type of die-off, but it could also be a reaction to the kefir. But in truth three glasses taken close together is a bit much for something as strong as kefir, and I would definitely stop at one glass from now on.

    But what I would do for this particular problem is to wait three days before having another go at the kefir. Then have only about 2 ounces that first day. The next day raise it to three ounces, and so on until you reach a full 8 ounce glass. Watch for any type of reaction, and if you receive any at all, don’t raise the amount the next day but wait two days before raising it by another ounce. “Slowly” and “gradually” are the key words with a Candida treatment, so is “patience” unfortunately.

    Thomas, also remember that just because you have a few bad days doesn’t mean that your infestation isn’t gradually healing, but just like with any bad illness, the “slow” and “gradual” part of the treatment is especially important when looking at the time it takes for a cure.

    Able

    Thank you Raster and Able, I really needed your words. I didnt have pain in the stomach for over a week and then I hit me with a vengeance. I haven’t broken the diet and will not do it. But I needed your words telling me what you experienced because the little voice, somehow I have the feeling the candia actually has a conciousness tells me, give up its not working. Its bullshit and I am not listening but it hacks away on me in the nights when I woke up in pain. I got real cramps in the arm and I never had this, much like a tennis arm syndrome, stomach pains etc.

    What did I learn from this:

    Dont have too many new things from the food list, at ones. Just before I started to feel bad I took into my diet, bell peppers (green), onions, garlic and drank a lot of kefir. Now, stupid me I dont know which of the stuff caused it. I will step back and do it sloooooowly and gradually like Able said. Its a marathon battle, I was so happy that I became a bit cocky with the enemy.

    all the best to you all
    yours
    Thomas

    #67716

    89Mirageman
    Member
    Topics: 14
    Replies: 55

    Thomas I hope you get to feeling better soon, I guess I relate to you because I feel we are in the same boat and share a lot of the same symptoms from what I have read in your posts.

    One thing that I have noticed by learning the hard way, just like you said, stick to the diet 100% and there won’t be any issues. If/when you introduce something, eat just a little and only one item at a time just like Able posted. Sadly, we have the info right in front of us but sometimes we are hardheaded and don’t listen lol.

    I don’t know about you but these past few days have made me learn my lesson. It also made me realize that I am not quite as “healed” as I thought. This will take time for sure and it can’t be rushed. Those of us that have had issues for years can’t expect it to go away in a few weeks. Again, I hope you get to feeling better soon buddy!

    #67717

    Thomas
    Member
    Topics: 71
    Replies: 605

    89Mirageman wrote: Thomas I hope you get to feeling better soon, I guess I relate to you because I feel we are in the same boat and share a lot of the same symptoms from what I have read in your posts.

    One thing that I have noticed by learning the hard way, just like you said, stick to the diet 100% and there won’t be any issues. If/when you introduce something, eat just a little and only one item at a time just like Able posted. Sadly, we have the info right in front of us but sometimes we are hardheaded and don’t listen lol.

    I don’t know about you but these past few days have made me learn my lesson. It also made me realize that I am not quite as “healed” as I thought. This will take time for sure and it can’t be rushed. Those of us that have had issues for years can’t expect it to go away in a few weeks. Again, I hope you get to feeling better soon buddy!

    I am very happy for your post, your words really give me a feeling of not being alone in this. Its terrible that you have the same symptoms as I have. I would not wish this for my worst enemy but then again knowing that someone understands me feels comforting. Thanks!

    I too hope that you will soon feel better and a healthy future.

    yours
    thomas

    #67718

    Thomas
    Member
    Topics: 71
    Replies: 605

    Able900 wrote: Greetings, Thomas.

    I’m really sorry you’ve had such a bad time the last few days. But keep in mind that everyone fighting Candida will experience down times; meaning that suddenly new symptoms, reactions, or sensitivities can show up at any time before the infestation is fully under control.

    To be honest, there’s no way any of us can be certain what caused your stomach problems and dizziness. It could be a type of die-off, but it could also be a reaction to the kefir. But in truth three glasses taken close together is a bit much for something as strong as kefir, and I would definitely stop at one glass from now on.

    But what I would do for this particular problem is to wait three days before having another go at the kefir. Then have only about 2 ounces that first day. The next day raise it to three ounces, and so on until you reach a full 8 ounce glass. Watch for any type of reaction, and if you receive any at all, don’t raise the amount the next day but wait two days before raising it by another ounce. “Slowly” and “gradually” are the key words with a Candida treatment, so is “patience” unfortunately.

    Thomas, also remember that just because you have a few bad days doesn’t mean that your infestation isn’t gradually healing, but just like with any bad illness, the “slow” and “gradual” part of the treatment is especially important when looking at the time it takes for a cure.

    Able

    One thing freaked me out it bit and that is what I read about IBD Inflammatory bowel disease. Why did I look into that, well because I have exactly the symptoms.

    here I read:

    But in people with IBD, the immune system seems to overreact to normal bacteria in the digestive tract. And once it starts working, the immune system fails to “shut off.” This causes the inflammation, which damages the digestive tract and causes symptoms.

    the bold outline text is the part where I got afraid about. What is if I cant have good strong Probiotics because my immune system freaks out with them. If that is the case I am really in shit.

    What do you think Able.

    cheers
    Thomas

    #67732

    Able900
    Spectator
    Topics: 92
    Replies: 4811

    Thomas wrote: One thing freaked me out it bit and that is what I read about IBD Inflammatory bowel disease. Why did I look into that, well because I have exactly the symptoms. here I read: But in people with IBD, the immune system seems to overreact to normal bacteria in the digestive tract. And once it starts working, the immune system fails to “shut off.” This causes the inflammation, which damages the digestive tract and causes symptoms. the bold outline text is the part where I got afraid about. What is if I cant have good strong Probiotics because my immune system freaks out with them. If that is the case I am really in shit. What do you think Able.

    Thomas; do you remember when you first stated researching Candida and reading tons of information and noticing how many different sites you read about what will and what will not cure the infestation? Way over half of them really didn’t have a clue, right? Well guess what, it’s the same for any disease you can name. There are hundreds of people on the net who think they have the end all answer but have never bothered to find actual research proving or disproving their theory. We can say the very same about Inflammatory Bowel Disease, there are lots of people who don’t have a clue as far as the research conducted, yet they’re telling people they have the answer.

    The article below was published in the Journal of Medical Microbiology. The article is about butyric acid producing bacteria, and at least two of the bacterial species which produce butyric acid are in most of the good quality probiotic brands, those are lactobacilli and bifidobacteria.

    Promising Probiotic Treatment for Inflammatory Bowel Disease

    “Bacteria that produce compounds to reduce inflammation and strengthen host defenses could be used to treat inflammatory bowel disease (IBD). Such probiotic microbes could be the most successful treatment for IBD to date.
    IBD is inflammation of the gastro-intestinal tract that causes severe watery and bloody diarrhoea and abdominal pain. It is an emerging disease that affects 20 out of 100,000 genetically susceptible people in Europe and North America. The most common manifestations of IBD are Crohn’s disease and ulcerative colitis. While the exact causes are unclear, IBD is known to be the result of an overactive immune response that is linked to an imbalance of the normal types of bacteria found in the gut.
    Several recent studies have identified butyric acid as a potential therapeutic agent for IBD. Some gut bacteria produce butyric acid naturally in the intestines, but in IBD patients some of these strains are heavily depleted. Trials in mice have shown that injecting one such strain Faecalibacterium prausnitzii into the digestive tract is effective at restoring normal levels of gut bacteria and treating the symptoms of IBD. In addition, novel identified butyrate-producing strains, such as Butyricicoccus pullicaecorum, have been shown to exert similar effects.
    Butyric acid has well-known anti-inflammatory effects and is able to strengthen intestinal wall cells — making it an ideal therapeutic agent against IBD. In addition to butyric acid, it is hypothesized that strains such as F. prausnitzii and B.pullicaecorum secrete other anti-inflammatory compounds that may enhance the therapeutic effect.
    Prof. Filip Van Immerseel, a medical microbiologist from Ghent University in Belgium said that a new treatment for IBD would be welcomed. “Conventional drug therapy has limited effectiveness and considerable side effects. Probiotics are live bacterial supplements or food ingredients, which when taken in sufficient numbers confer health benefits to the host,” he said. Previous trials of probiotics to treat IBD using mainly lactic acid bacteria have given mixed results. “Now we realize that lactic acid is used for growth by a certain population of bacteria that produce butyric acid, which could explain why some of the older studies had a positive outcome. Recent trials focusing on butyric acid-producing bacterial strains have been extremely promising and could lead to a new treatment for IBD.”
    Developing an effective probiotic treatment for IBD will not be easy, however. “As butyric acid-producing bacteria are naturally depleted in IBD patients, we will need to identify strains that are able to colonize the gut without being outcompeted. Many bacterial species produce butyric acid and possibly other anti-inflammatory molecules so it’s a case of finding which is the most robust under these conditions,” said Prof. Van Immerseel.”

    Able

    #67738

    Thomas
    Member
    Topics: 71
    Replies: 605

    Able900 wrote:

    One thing freaked me out it bit and that is what I read about IBD Inflammatory bowel disease. Why did I look into that, well because I have exactly the symptoms. here I read: But in people with IBD, the immune system seems to overreact to normal bacteria in the digestive tract. And once it starts working, the immune system fails to “shut off.” This causes the inflammation, which damages the digestive tract and causes symptoms. the bold outline text is the part where I got afraid about. What is if I cant have good strong Probiotics because my immune system freaks out with them. If that is the case I am really in shit. What do you think Able.

    Thomas; do you remember when you first stated researching Candida and reading tons of information and noticing how many different sites you read about what will and what will not cure the infestation? Way over half of them really didn’t have a clue, right? Well guess what, it’s the same for any disease you can name. There are hundreds of people on the net who think they have the end all answer but have never bothered to find actual research proving or disproving their theory. We can say the very same about Inflammatory Bowel Disease, there are lots of people who don’t have a clue as far as the research conducted, yet they’re telling people they have the answer.

    The article below was published in the Journal of Medical Microbiology. The article is about butyric acid producing bacteria, and at least two of the bacterial species which produce butyric acid are in most of the good quality probiotic brands, those are lactobacilli and bifidobacteria.

    Able

    Dear Able,
    yes I surly remember and some of them where counter-productive even dangerous! Its a jungle out there and I am happy you are guiding us,therefore I came with my question to you before I really deeply believed that article.

    Anyhow the voice of pain is quite powerful and the thoughts easily attach with them forming a believe structure. Thank you for your information, it really helps me to see straight and not having stomach pains right now together with your information forms nicely a new believe structure that of…“you see Able is right..its only die-off, you are on the right track…move on!”

    Thank you
    Thomas

    #121136

    Adhri
    Member
    Topics: 0
    Replies: 1

    Hello Thomas, I was researching about kefir and feeling sick after taking and saw your post, very usefull as well as all the people who reply it to you. Gratitude!
    I feel the same way , very strong abdominal and stomach pain after taking even a teaspoon of milk kefir.. I have been trying to take kefir ( water and milk) over a month and not feeling well. I am upset about it, cause I really need to heal all my digestive tract, which is been bad and sick for ages. I guess we can adjust our body slowly as the body takes its own time to get well. I ve been cleaning my body for over 2 years now ( juices, greens,enemas,suplemets, etc) and with the kefir, I realize it s not clean enough and maybe there are strong creatures inside the body who are resistant and dont wanna leave.They are maybe rooted in our tissue and resistant to die
    But in the end we are the very general chef in our body and they must leave one way or another, if we have persistent and patience enough. Just be strong and keep fighting, at least thats the way I feel!!! 😉

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