Probiotic enemas – what do you think?

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This topic contains 9 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  IBSguy 6 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #88517

    Angor
    Member
    Topics: 47
    Replies: 136

    Enemas has been a hot topic on the boards lately. But what about probiotic enemas? What do you guys know about them? Would it be beneficial?

    I’m pretty sure I have SIBO (small intestine bacterial overgrowth) and I think I also have candida due to certain symptoms. What I know about SIBO is that the cleansing waves that normally sweeps bacterias from the small intestine is not functioning as they should. That’s why it seems a bit supid to keep adding bacteria orally.

    Does anyone have info about this? Would probiotic enemas be beneficial for candida or SIBO or both? Or none? I heard people with ulcerative colitis have gotten great results from doing this.

    #88524

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    Angor wrote: Enemas has been a hot topic on the boards lately. But what about probiotic enemas? What do you guys know about them? Would it be beneficial?

    I’m pretty sure I have SIBO (small intestine bacterial overgrowth) and I think I also have candida due to certain symptoms. What I know about SIBO is that the cleansing waves that normally sweeps bacterias from the small intestine is not functioning as they should. That’s why it seems a bit supid to keep adding bacteria orally.

    Does anyone have info about this? Would probiotic enemas be beneficial for candida or SIBO or both? Or none? I heard people with ulcerative colitis have gotten great results from doing this.

    There is way to get proper diagnosis for SIBO.
    I don’t know how a Probiotic enema may benefit you if SIBO is your health problem.
    Regarding to candida, even having an overgrowth in the colon, I don’t believe probiotics can correct it. The colon flora is very complex and most of the bacteria living there are anaerobic or facultative anaerobic. They offer inhibitory effects against fungal colonization when they dominate. But, they can not displace candida to growth in the area at least you eradicate the fungus first.
    Anyway, all this is experimental and you can try any method that may give you relief.

    Jorge.

    #88539

    Angor
    Member
    Topics: 47
    Replies: 136

    Yes, I know, but the doctors don’t know anything about SIBO in my country. I doubt they’d let me do the HBT. Thank you for the input, dvjorge! I guess I’ll just try it to satisfy my curiosity … It can’t do harm at least, hopefully. Thanks.

    #88548

    flailingWcandi
    Member
    Topics: 13
    Replies: 277

    The only SIBO test I know is the Hydrogen Breath Test (HBT). The HBT test can be ordered online. from a health professional and shipped to a country where they have the machines to test the kits. Cedars in Los Angeles tests kits from around the world; for instance.

    There are two SIBO treatments but, don’t know how one is chosen over the other: perhaps location of symptoms? Mine has almost always been lower right quadrant, so they probably assumed it was lower small intestine. My treatment was a 15 day Vivonex protocol; nothing swallowed for the duration other than Vivonex. The idea is Vivonex is predigested and is absorbed in the upper small intestine, thereby starving bacteria lower in the GI tract and killing off the overgrowth.

    Assume the other treatment of abxs is used on patients with upper quadrant GI pain but, don’t have any experience on the subject. I had been treated with so many abxs prior to the sibo dx they should have taken care of any bacterial issues.

    You can try Vivonex and see what happens, though I have recently been advised people have claimed Vivonex caused their candida OG.

    Vivonex is disgusting so make sure to buy Nestle’s flavor packets.

    #88549

    Floggi
    Member
    Topics: 1
    Replies: 425

     

    Angor wrote: the doctors don’t know anything about SIBO in my country.

    In other words: does SIBO exist?

    Doctor’s knowledge in all countries is very comparable, you know…
     

    #88554

    flailingWcandi
    Member
    Topics: 13
    Replies: 277

    http://www.siboinfo.com/

    I was treated for SIBO by Dr. Mark Pimental of Cedars who is noted on this SIBO page. Though in my case, SIBO was one of many mis-dx’s along my journey. Then again, whose to say you can’t have both, bacterial overgrowth and candida overgrowth concurrently since once things get out of balance whose to say it isn’t possible.

    If you believe in Candida OG, you better believe in bacterial OG as well.

    #88558

    Latka
    Member
    Topics: 5
    Replies: 128

    I have the same problem, Angor; I suspect that I have SIBO but even though there is a test for it(the HBT) I doubt the doctors here know much about it or would be bothered to use resources to get me that test. I mean just because I’m bloated and suffering doesn’t mean I’m going to die from it, right? So there’s no reason to do anything about it! I was so unwell a couple of weeks ago that I considered to book an appointment with my general practitioner in order to bring him my research and request the test. In the end I didn’t dare to even try as I would have been so frustrated if he, once again, would have just looked at my belly that looks 6 months pregnant and said “well, weight gain around abdomen is completely normal when you get older!” (btw, I’m not that old!)

    So I keep researching about this and while I do think something like SIBO can and does exist, the more important question is: what causes it? It is not normal so something else must be wrong to create this situation. I’ve read that the common treatment is taking antibiotics to kill the bacterial overgrowth and it can be very effective. However for most the problem returns some 6 months later. Even though I would love nothing more than the resolve this problem, do I really want to keep on taking antibiotics every six months for the rest of my life to keep this at bay?

    So what causes it? And if I can find out what causes it I can hopefully address this and solve the problem without nuking my insides. In my earch I’ve settled for lowered metabolism as the cause; this can lower transit time and then it is possible that stuff stays in there too long, and that the valve between small intestine and colon won’t work properly either. Since I don’t even have the option of getting this diagnosed my best bet is now to keep on increasing my metabolism to see if over time this might help.

    I got really scared of taking probiotics when it made me extremely bloated. I had to consider the possibility that by taking them orally, (and perhaps due to a slower transit time, who knows?) I ended up introducing too much of this stuff in the small intestine? This suspicion has gotten me to wonder about the probiotic enemas too; for me it would be less scary to get that stuff straight into where it is supposed to end up.

    So if anyone has any info or experiences, I’d like to hear about it as well.

    #88559

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    Did you ever take PPIs for GERD? If not, you need to ask yourself why your digestion is so slow and inefficient that enough undigested food could make its way to the lower end of the small intestine and stay there long enough and frequently enough for bacteria to feed and work their way up. Even if you did take PPIs, why? What caused the GERD? Assuming you could “reset” the flora in your entire GI tract, would it solve whatever that problem is? What if your metabolism is still crap and the food still trawls its way through your shiny new intestines? How long is that going to last?

    Floggi wrote: In other words: does SIBO exist?

    Doctor’s knowledge in all countries is very comparable, you know…

    Doctors are about as up-to-date on research as the magazines in their waiting rooms. SIBO is being explored as a cause of IBS in one of those situations where tens of thousands are spent on research to state the obvious. It’s linked to a few diseases if you look at the research. Hypothyroidism is one of them, which fits in with what I was suggesting above about metabolism.

    Looking at #4 on the list makes me wonder how accurate GHBT actually is though. #12 speaks positively of them but has the line ‘hydrogen breath tests, in spite of their low sensitivity, are popular for their non-invasiveness.’ Seems like they’re chosen for their patient-friendliness, unless maybe the suffering patient needs an accurate diagnosis…

    Latka wrote: I got really scared of taking probiotics when it made me extremely bloated. I had to consider the possibility that by taking them orally, (and perhaps due to a slower transit time, who knows?) I ended up introducing too much of this stuff in the small intestine?

    I read online that bifidobacterium from probiotics can exasperate SIBO, but I’m not sure if that’s been proven or just observed. It seems plausible if the small intestine has been allowed to become a microbial Wild West that allows bacteria to deputise themselves and start taking over your food supply.

    You said your hypothyroidism treatment isn’t working out well, right? I think you really need to focus on that and getting your metabolism in gear. Remember the study I posted about SIBO and hypothyroidism? There’s a nasty list of GI symptoms here too. I don’t think any attempts at normalising flora stand a chance while your body isn’t interested in helping you. It’s not all doom and gloom if you read the last line of that abstract ‘Symptoms usually resolve with treatment of the thyroid disease.’ 🙂

    #88564

    Latka
    Member
    Topics: 5
    Replies: 128

    I agree and this is the conclusion I came to in my case: there must be another underlying problem especially if the gut imbalance situation keeps returning. Just repopulating the gut with the good bacterias isn’t going to solve that underlying cause as it is most likely outside the gut. Though it can possibly offer some relief to the inflammed gut. Sometimes this is needed too: to remedy the symptoms when they cause too much suffering. But I certainly don’t think they alone can be the cure. I’ve come to consider lowered metabolism as the most likely cause for my problems. I know I need to get my metabolism in gear and this is what I am trying to do now.

    The hypothyroidism treatment was working fine until I started with all these low carb, restricted diets. Despite being on the same dose of thyroid supplementaion I messed up things for myself by undereating and overexercising this spring. I can see the correlation between my temperatures and what and how much I eat, as well as how much I push myself to exercise. That’s why I think there is more to my lowered metabolism than some malfunctioning in the thyroid gland alone. In the bigger picture I wasn’t giving my body what it needed to function. The positive side of this is that I can hopefully do something to correct the situation myself. A lot of my “pregnant”-bloating and gas problems (that made me suspect SIBO) have lessened after I increased my carb consumption and got my temps up, which is promising.

    Yes, I also read something about some strains of probiotics possibly aggravating the situation in case of SIBO. At least my experience was that my extreme bloating started with them, and then lessened once I stopped taking them. Actually I seem to be better off without them.

    #88624

    IBSguy
    Member
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 6

    I thought I had SIBO because of my IBS symptoms and I every gastroenterologist in my are and asked them if they do the hydrogen breath test until I found one that did. I scheduled an appointment and went but they told me that that I’d have to schedule another appointment to come back in and do it and it would take a few hours. I in turn told them that I know that QuinTron has an online service where you can do the breath test at home. The Dr. stepped away and went and researched it and came back and said it was legit and I proceeded to order it online.

    I got the test via FedEx and drank the sugar solution (SO SWEET :P) and did the breath test. I packaged it up and sent the samples off. A week later, I got a letter in the mail saying my results were negative.

    So with SIBO eliminated, and with me exhibiting these symptoms:

    Oral Thrush: http://oralthrushpictures.com/

    Dry Cough: http://www.ehow.com/list_5915363_signs-symptoms-overgrowth-candida-lungs.html

    Irritable Bowel Syndrom: http://www.naturalnews.com/022241.html

    I’m am starting to believe that I have a Candida type problem going on. I just hope whatever it is, I can finally identify it and eliminate it. And if it has to be Candida, so be it.

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