Overdid the carbs – die off AGAIN???

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This topic contains 13 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  impossible 5 years, 7 months ago.

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  • #113271

    doravanil
    Member
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 8

    Hi there,

    I finally created a user profile because I’ve been perusing the forum since I started this frustrating candida diet a month ago and I am STILL loaded with questions. So I hope someone has some advice – anything will help me at this point. I can provide a little background with my situation because that might help.

    So, first the question: If you’re taking Nystatin and you happen to eat a much higher amount of carbs than are allowed in the form of, say, rice crackers or homemade SF macaroons (coconut) OR had some chicken sausage that contained “honey granules” and maybe more than a serving of corn tortilla chips (man, this is starting to sound really bad), could that create another round of die-off symptoms because you’re still on the Nystatin and have just added a new generation of candida cells for it to blow up?

    If so, that explains a lot. But if not, here are some other things that it could be:

    -just switched to 2.5 grains of Armour thyroid from 137mcg of Synthroid & 5mcg Cytomel; may be too high for my system

    -currently breastfeeding and have lost weight due to this diet & possibly started to clear some metabolic pathways making any supplements I am taking much more powerful

    -adrenal fatigue still persisting? I have been on Ashwagandha and Rhodiola for over a month and my cortisol levels are normal, so I can’t figure this one out.

    I’m sure there may be other possiblities, but one thing I should mention is that I don’t seem to experience die-off in the “classic” sense with flu-like symptoms, rather mine seem to all be sinus and mood related. I’ve been on Nystatin for a few days shy of a month and even lowered my dosage down to 2 tabs a day because the die-off was too much for me. I was feeling okay the last week or two for the most part, but this weekend I had a few delicious no-no foods and now I feel like crap.

    Any input is so greatly appreciated!!!

    Thanks,

    #113272

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    Oh yes, candida will thrive on starches (especially fried starches-chips & crackers) and sugars even in the presence of antifungals. Then get killed by them.

    Adrenal fatigue is best diagnosed by symptoms imo. What shows up as “normal” on labs might not be your normal. More frequent urination, salt tasting real good, getting lightheaded even a touch upon standing, things gettin to you a little more than normal, not being able to fall asleep or wake up easily are the initial indications of a hypo adrenal condition. Is this a problem for you? Jackin up the the thyroid hormones leans on the adrenals and can really stress them, this is often one of the first problems to occur when upping thyroid if one has weak adrenals. Too much armour will generally cause palpitations, restless type anxiety, and an upset stomach. Generally a feeling of being up regulated. Similar to die off, though die off will usually have other symptoms, as you know, typically including headache, brain fog, stuffiness, malaise and/or muscle aches.

    Die off will stress the adrenals to a noticeable amount if your having problems there too.

    Stop eatin the crap for a while and see what happens. Moly will help with the die off. B5 can hugely help both die off and adrenal fatigue (with vit c) and is one the b vitamins that is safe to take by itself.

    #113273

    doravanil
    Member
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 8

    Thank you so much! Just by the symptoms I’m having that you also mentioned (malaise, brain fog, a little nausea), I kind of thought that may have been the case. As far as adrenals go, the main problem I notice is the lightheadedness upon standing up. I have no doubt that increased thyroid would probably exacerbate adrenal fatigue symptoms, but unfortunately they want to keep me at an elevated dose because I had thyroid cancer and supposedly that helps to keep the cancer from recurring.

    I also forgot to mention that I have one copy of heterozygous MTHFR mutation and take methylfolate and methylcobalamin, but do you know if regular B5 is okay to take as well with this mutation?

    Thanks again!

    #113274

    ThomasJoel2
    Participant
    Topics: 9
    Replies: 375

    I will echo what impossible said and say that you should support your adrenals and get that situation sorted out before you start any thyroid support. Supplementing for your thyroid when your adrenals are already weak will make you feel worse.

    If you want to get a better idea of where your adrenals/thyroid are at you might want to try tracking your daily temperature. Here’s some information on that: http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph

    Adaptogenic herbs like Ashwagandha and Rhodiola are typically not enough to best support the adrenals. Adrenal Cortex Extract, on the other hand, can help a lot with adrenal fatigue and I highly recommend you check it out. It’s by far the most important supplement I take. I also wouldn’t assume that your adrenals are fine based on your cortisol test results. When I did the cortisol spit test a while back my results were slightly low, but still in the “normal” range and I benefit greatly from taking ACE.

    #113275

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    I recommend vitamins to heal the adrenals and drenamin is a good food grade source from the oldest vitamin manufacturer in the world…

    I would stay away from all corn for a very long time.

    If you continue to feed the yeast and kill it off again you’ll be feeling like you are feeling right now.

    I think a lot of the symptoms you are mentioning could also be related to the liver and liver health and you should examine this further. Are you taking anything to protect you from die-off toxins?

    -raster

    #113278

    doravanil
    Member
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 8

    raster;51796 wrote: I recommend vitamins to heal the adrenals and drenamin is a good food grade source from the oldest vitamin manufacturer in the world…

    I would stay away from all corn for a very long time.

    If you continue to feed the yeast and kill it off again you’ll be feeling like you are feeling right now.

    I think a lot of the symptoms you are mentioning could also be related to the liver and liver health and you should examine this further. Are you taking anything to protect you from die-off toxins?

    -raster

    Thanks, Raster. Right now I’m taking molybdenum (Moly B) to help with die-off symptoms and milk thistle as well. Is Drenamin similar to Isocort? I was taking that prior to getting pregnant and I thought it worked great, but I heard they were discontinuing it…

    #113279

    doravanil
    Member
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 8

    ThomasJoel2;51795 wrote: I will echo what impossible said and say that you should support your adrenals and get that situation sorted out before you start any thyroid support. Supplementing for your thyroid when your adrenals are already weak will make you feel worse.

    If you want to get a better idea of where your adrenals/thyroid are at you might want to try tracking your daily temperature. Here’s some information on that: http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph

    Adaptogenic herbs like Ashwagandha and Rhodiola are typically not enough to best support the adrenals. Adrenal Cortex Extract, on the other hand, can help a lot with adrenal fatigue and I highly recommend you check it out. It’s by far the most important supplement I take. I also wouldn’t assume that your adrenals are fine based on your cortisol test results. When I did the cortisol spit test a while back my results were slightly low, but still in the “normal” range and I benefit greatly from taking ACE.

    Thank you. The only problem with the thyroid support is that I really can’t abandon it because I don’t have a thyroid anymore. I don’t know if there is an okay way to treat that while simultaneously healing the adrenals. If you have any ideas, though, I would be open to them for sure!

    #113296

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    B5 has no effect on the methylation cycle. I recommend using pantethine (not pantothenic acid) 300-500 mg upon awakening. That, with 1-3000 mg vit c, actually has quite an impact with adrenal fatigue. Those 2 vits, with cholesterol, are the basic building blocks of steroid hormones. I actually started my girlfriend, who was really starting to be symptomatic, on that a month ago and she says she already feels alot better, doesnt need coffee anymore (which anyone with af should stay away from), and she says her “hormones” (referring to girly hormones and all that) feel better too. She’s always had typical low progesterone problems.

    If you can tolerate ace and you want to try it, alot of people have good results from that too.

    #113297

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    doravanil;51800 wrote:

    I will echo what impossible said and say that you should support your adrenals and get that situation sorted out before you start any thyroid support. Supplementing for your thyroid when your adrenals are already weak will make you feel worse.

    If you want to get a better idea of where your adrenals/thyroid are at you might want to try tracking your daily temperature. Here’s some information on that: http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph

    Adaptogenic herbs like Ashwagandha and Rhodiola are typically not enough to best support the adrenals. Adrenal Cortex Extract, on the other hand, can help a lot with adrenal fatigue and I highly recommend you check it out. It’s by far the most important supplement I take. I also wouldn’t assume that your adrenals are fine based on your cortisol test results. When I did the cortisol spit test a while back my results were slightly low, but still in the “normal” range and I benefit greatly from taking ACE.

    Thank you. The only problem with the thyroid support is that I really can’t abandon it because I don’t have a thyroid anymore. I don’t know if there is an okay way to treat that while simultaneously healing the adrenals. If you have any ideas, though, I would be open to them for sure!

    If your not that symptomatic, just support them with b5/c or ace and dont worry about it. You should notice a difference rather quickly.

    Oh, oral cortisol/cortisone really isnt a good idea. First, cortisol supplementation in any way affects the hpa axis, which is why I recommend b5/c. Second, oral down the pipe usage basically turns off your immune system if used in any appreciable amount. The average person can somewhat get away with about isocort tab a day, beyond that is too much immune suppression. I dont tolerate ace, b5/c alone wasnt enough, so I actually use hydrocortisone topically now. I have it compounded.

    #113320

    doravanil
    Member
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 8

    Thanks so much, Impossible! I’m definitely going to try the B5. Is the powdered version of vit c better than pill form in your opinion? I saw my naturopath today and she gave me a trial of something called ‘Calm CP’ that is supposed to help tone down the epinephrine/norepinephrine surges throughout the day, and if that isn’t quite doing the trick she also gave me a trial of ‘ADR’ which is supposed to work in a way that’s similar to Isocort.

    As for the thyroid, she said that it may be I need to have my formula custom compounded to allow for a lower T3 to T4 ratio. Fine by me!

    #113323

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    doravanil;51841 wrote: Thanks so much, Impossible! I’m definitely going to try the B5. Is the powdered version of vit c better than pill form in your opinion? I saw my naturopath today and she gave me a trial of something called ‘Calm CP’ that is supposed to help tone down the epinephrine/norepinephrine surges throughout the day, and if that isn’t quite doing the trick she also gave me a trial of ‘ADR’ which is supposed to work in a way that’s similar to Isocort.

    As for the thyroid, she said that it may be I need to have my formula custom compounded to allow for a lower T3 to T4 ratio. Fine by me!

    Just keep it to one change at a time so you know what supplement is having is having what effect. Yes, powdered vit c is definitely better, buffered is alot easier to tolerate at that doseage too. If I was you, I would basically try the supplements in the exact order that you just listed them, though once your through die off you probably wont have a need for the ‘ADR’. It sounds like your fairly close, I would tweak the thyroid only after die off is done and theres no shortage of adrenal hormones.

    #113324

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    Also, make sure you are kepping your blood sugar at a proper stable level and getting enough sleep. A big spoonful of any nutbutter before bed helps with both of those.

    #113327

    klips32
    Participant
    Topics: 65
    Replies: 183

    impossible;51845 wrote: Also, make sure you are kepping your blood sugar at a proper stable level and getting enough sleep. A big spoonful of any nutbutter before bed helps with both of those.

    If I do that, I feel very hungry and starved in the morning, how come?

    #113332

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    klips32;51848 wrote:

    Also, make sure you are kepping your blood sugar at a proper stable level and getting enough sleep. A big spoonful of any nutbutter before bed helps with both of those.

    If I do that, I feel very hungry and starved in the morning, how come?

    Just drawing on general knowledge and experience, the way I understand it is this. The body goes through a cycle after eating that triggers hunger again. This is largely influenced by blood sugar and leptin levels falling. When blood sugar falls it triggers hunger, when it falls enough the brain stimulates production of adrenaline, via the adrenals, to get the liver to kick out stored glucose and restore blood sugar levels. When blood sugar rises, hunger diminishes. When leptin becomes low enough, it triggers another hormone that causes the feeling of hunger. Im assuming that the levels of this hormone are greatest at the point of initial production and taper off over the course of a few hours. This is something that typically happens around around 3 or 4 in the morning and you, hopefully, sleep through. By the time you wake up most of the hunger feelings have already subsided. The people that experience awakening at 3 or 4 in the morning with their thoughts running on are experiencing this, thats the mini adrenaline surge. It can still disrupt the quality of sleep even if it doesnt wake you. By eating the nut butter, or any meal i guess, you are restarting the clock and not experiencing those things until awakening, and avoiding the adrenaline surge and lack of sleep that are hard on the adrenals. Nut butters work the best, hangs around the longest.

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