- December 4, 2013 at 11:33 pm #113093
rasterParticipantTopics: 104Replies: 6837
Has anyone tried this product?
My naturopath recommended this as a good starter product to take to address the methylation cycle. I wanted impossible’s input on it if possible.
He stated that his plan for curing the methylation cycle is quite expensive, costing a few hundred bucks per month. One of the biggest expenses in his treatment is glutathione; he has two grades of it, the cheap stuff and the stuff thats $100 per bottle per month.
To address the methylation cycle, he recommends you heal every single part of it (via supplements). The timeline to get better from this cycle can vary person to person depending on their pH.
He also stated that if your pH is not neutral, the methylation cycle will basically unwind.
-rasterDecember 5, 2013 at 5:02 am #113098
impossibleMemberTopics: 16Replies: 606
As far as ph is concerned, an overly acidic ph will hamper methylation, and should be one of the first things corrected along with leaky gut and infections before a methyl protocol is started. But, again, thats not going to correct a methyl block, especially if theres other challenges (toxins, etc) present. And getting those toxins out is hard to do with hampered methylation. Its the old catch-22 and is part of the reason why supplementation can be required. Methylation supplementation has reversed autism and cfs, regardless of ph. Ph balancing, though very important, has not, to my knowledge.
I do not recommend ever supplementing with glutathione. Glutathione is an end product of the methylation cycle and will in time increase to proper numbers when things are working properly. The problem with supplementing is in how and where its made, how it acts with b12, and what happens when its in the bloodstream. Glutathione is made and reduced back into its “active” form in the cells. The vast majority, nearly all actually, is in the cells, there is very little in the blood, especially in reduced form. For the most part, it only hits the bloodstream after the cell kicks it out when its bound to something, a toxin, where its quickly dealt with in the liver/kidneys. Glutathione and b12 have an affinity for each other. Together they are glutathionylcobalamin. In fact, it has been proposed that one of glutathiones jobs is to protect b12 in the cell and reduce oxidized b12 so that it can be used, as b12 is highly reactive and easily oxidized when left all by its lonesome. All these processes happen in a controlled manner in the cell. What happens when you flood the bloodstream with glutathione is it does exactly what its supposed to do, only in the bloodstream (very little actually enters the cells, any substantial increase in intracellular glutathione happens because its broken down into its amino acid counterparts in the liver, then these are delivered to the cells throughout the body and reconstructed). It reduces or binds to whatever it comes into contact with, which then gets filtered out and tossed into the colon or filtered by the kidneys, including unbound b12. It induces a b12 deficiency. Heres where it gets crazy. Without enough b12 to go around, the cells become deficient in it. This becomes an oh shit problem because b12 and folate (B9) must stay balanced. You have just become methyl trapped. When folate doesnt have any b12 to hang with, it gets kicked out of the cell. You now have a glutathione induced folate deficiency. This is the exact opposite of what you were trying to do. If you thought you had problems before…
With that said, some or most people do ok or even good with glutathione, despite the fact that this is occurring at some level. However, several people have had this happen bad enough to lay them up for weeks and even had neuropathy caused by it. Some never fully recovered. There is no way to test to find out if you might be one of those people. You’re rolling the dice.
Considering how delicate this whole balance is and all the possible variations of blockages and other possible repercussions considering other up regulations or down regulations of end products of the methyl cycle, its just not a good idea to just take anything or everything. You can just as easily create problems as you can solve them. Anything from ammonia induced brain fog to bad anxiety. If you wish to try without utilizing testing, I strongly recommend following Rich Van Konynenburg’s simplified protocol. Very few people understand the physiology involved as well as Rich did and the protocol is very well thought out. Many people have done well on it. Start out very slowly, the lower the dose you start with and the slower you taper up the safer. Some people start by licking the very tip of a toothpick and dipping it in the capsule. I wouldnt recommend supplementing methylfolate at all beyond 200 mcg per day. I like Dr Lynchs view on things, you should feel better every step of the way and if you get to a point where everything is great, lay off and then only take it as you feel is necessary. Keep some time release niacin on hand in case you “over methylate” or ramp things up too quickly, its a methyl sink and can slow things back down. It takes time for the body to adjust.
All forms and even brands of methylated vitamins are not created equal. For methylfolate, use either metafolin or quatrefolic. The only b12 considered to be worthy by the folks over at phoenixrising, based on anecdotal testing by 5 hypersensitive individuals, is Enzymatic Therapy used sub-lingually. Most others agree. I have used 4 brands of b12 and I definitely noticed a difference. Some have even had problems using other brands. IMO, whatever amount of methylfolate is swallowed, the same amount of methylcobalamin (b12) should be used sub-lingually. Actually, the best way is to keep it between your lip and gum. It must be there for a long time. Ive heard 2 hours gets 25% absorption. Its a slow process. I use a quarter of a tablet (250 mg) and break it into a few pieces before bed and just leave it there while I sleep.
To use myself as an example, I dont have an mthfr (methylfolate) mutation, I have 3 mutations that prevent me from having a proper amount of methylB12. I have to take that just to make things balanced. I feel terrible if I dont. I never knew what it was like to be truly clear until I did. If I take methylfolate and b12 orally (methylb12 only has a 1% absorbtion rate when taken orally), I get severely out of balance and super methyltrap. It is not fun. Talk about hypersensitive. REALLY messed me up. That was my introduction into methylation.
I’ve spent countless hours researching this topic, thats pretty much some of the best of the best sources of info available at this moment. Based on real world experiences by thousands of people. If you have any questions, shoot away.December 6, 2013 at 12:19 am #113108
Tdog333MemberTopics: 25Replies: 245
Thanks impossible, I’m trying to learn more about methylation cycles, and this is pretty new to me! What articles have helped you learn the most? I am very intrigued. Can you share what has helped you learn the most.December 6, 2013 at 5:05 pm #113124
impossibleMemberTopics: 16Replies: 606
Tdog333;51629 wrote: Thanks impossible, I’m trying to learn more about methylation cycles, and this is pretty new to me! What articles have helped you learn the most? I am very intrigued. Can you share what has helped you learn the most.
I’m going to write a whole how to article for those looking to understand this better. But, to cut to the chase, start with the Methylation Simplified videos on youtube to get a general idea. Then set some time aside and read Autism: Pathways to Recovery by Amy Yasko. Look up anything you dont understand along the way, its pretty information dense. Although some of it doesnt apply to the candida group as a whole, alot of it actually does, as autistics share alot of the same immune problems and physiology as someone whos immune system has allowed an overgrowth of something that cell mediated immunity is supposed to suppress. Candida overgrowth is actually very common with autism. The two parallel each more than one would think (same goes with many other diseases). Ignore the bajillion supplements parts, though there can good stuff to learn there. From there read through heartfixers page to straighten out and organize your head. At that point, you’ll have a solid understanding to build on. I also suggest getting an intro to immunology textbook if your really interested in learning and understanding whats going on. These are all inflammatory diseases of one sort or another, thats what we’re trying to fix, so its pretty necessary to understand at least the basics. When you get to that point, if you still want more, I could point you to a bunch of other really informative stuff.
Its pretty cool, once you grasp all this stuff, what you can learn about yours or others conditions from the million articles and studies that are out there. Stuff you would never in million years think of or connect or hear of from your doctor. There’s so much out there, all the answers really are. Its really not all voodoo or that hard to wrap your head if you approach learning properly. It can be intimidating when you first look at it, but so was long division when you were in second grade LOL.
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