MDs should read it every day !!!

Home The Candida Forum Candida Questions MDs should read it every day !!!

This topic contains 13 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  dvjorge 6 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #89153

    dvjorge
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    #89161

    Floggi
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    Just why should MD’s read something they already know?

    The fact that an impact exists is common knowledge for a long, long time. The discovery that the impact lasts longer than previously thought is a more recent extension of that knowledge.

    Luckily, we have scientific and medical journal to disseminate any new findings throughout the medical community. Of course, this has already happened by now. I do not understand why MD’s have to read this yet another time.
     

    #89178

    dvjorge
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    Floggi wrote:  
    Just why should MD’s read something they already know?

    The fact that an impact exists is common knowledge for a long, long time. The discovery that the impact lasts longer than previously thought is a more recent extension of that knowledge.

    Luckily, we have scientific and medical journal to disseminate any new findings throughout the medical community. Of course, this has already happened by now. I do not understand why MD’s have to read this yet another time.
     

    So, Do you think they prescribe antibiotics indiscriminately knowing the permanent damage they cause to the beneficial flora ??

    I have discrepancies with you about it. It looks like they are more ignorant that what you think, at least right here in US.
    MDs don’t have time to read journals. I bet all my money most of them don’t know how important the colonic flora is.

    Jorge.

    #89189

    Javizy
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    I’d be pretty sceptical about MDs being up-to-date on research. Maybe a gastroenterologist would know much more about flora than a GP or other specialist, but some of the stuff I hear about endocrinologists and thyroid disorders makes me sceptical about even that. I think in many cases treatments are pretty much predetermined by official guidelines, so even if a doc gets some good ideas from new research, it’s unlikely to change the way he treats patients until it’s implemented in the guidelines.

    #89192

    Floggi
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    Over here, and in several neighbouring countries that I know of, MD’s are required to spend a certain number of days each year for training.

    Apart from this obligatory training, those doctors that I know personally do read journals.

    If that doesn’t happen in the USA – then just how have scientific discoveries of the past 80 years made their way into everyday diagnostics and curing? There must have been some route from science to practice, else practice would never have changed as thoroughly as it has…

    Yet another question that springs to mind is: if we cannot even trust the doctors, then who can we trust? Certainly not the legion of quacks which are even further away from scientific insights than MD’s. Do we all have to visit only university hospitals, assuming that this category exists in the USA?
     

    #89238

    Javizy
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    Of course there’s a route from science to practice, but it isn’t immediate and I doubt it’s achieved through MDs reading research in their free time. Many studies are too abstract to be of immediate practical use or require further research to be validated, and many more can be interpreted in different ways, or may require knowledge of specific fields or biochemistry that goes beyond an MD’s training. You can trust that MDs will follow the guidelines of whatever organisations draw them up for specific illnesses. I guess you just have to trust that the organisations are right and impartial.

    #89241

    Bucephalus
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    I have read the statistics somewhere and doctors in the US have actually decreased prescription of anti-biotics. I’m pretty sure this isn’t terribly new news. I mean if gastros were doing fecal implants as early as 2010 to cure anti-biotic induced c.diff, then you would imagine there was a body of study eluding to gut flora wreckage by anti-biotics.

    I can’t remember where I read it, but I think it was in Science, June issue. One of the articles in there. That whole issue was about the gut.

    So, yes, for once I agree with FLoggi in that maybe most, but not all, of the doctors in the US are either aware of why they have to be sparing in the prescription of antibiotics, or at least aware they have to as per guidelines from the medical hierarchy.

    David.

    #89248

    Floggi
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    One major difference between my country and the USA is that over here, antibiotics are really prescribed sparingly. We are really one of the exceptions – in the majority of countries, antibiotics are used much, much more frequently than here.

    Science has been telling us to use antibiotics sparingly for a long time. The problem was public perception. A doctor that refused to prescribe antibiotics was seen as unwilling to help the patient cure a disease. When we made the transition from “antibiotics for everything” to “antibiotics only if there is a real need for them”, some doctors were even literally beaten up badly by angry patient “because they were not doing their job”.

    Luckily, scientific insights have since then transcended not only from science to doctors, but also from both science and doctors to patients.

    Now, we see that multi-resistance (I don’t know the correct English terminology – I mean bacteria that developed resistance against multiple strains of antibiotics) is a rare event here, while it is a big problem elsewhere.

    Can someone from the USA tell why doctors are still prescribing antibiotics so often? They must know the facts by now. Are their unions advising this as a standard measure? Are they afraid to go their own way because American patients demand antibiotics, like it happened here some 20 years ago? Are they afraid to go their own way because they are afraid of lawsuits and huge claims in case one patient happens not to recover?
     

    #89255

    KSG
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    It’s true that doctors in the Netherlands dont prescribe antibiotics except when it’s really necessary. I first came into contact with antibiotics in India, where you can buy it everywhere. That was probably the reason my Candida symptoms went from manageable to problematic.

    But I have a different experience with doctors regarding their up to date knowledge. I’ve visited a lot of doctors and specialists. The older ones that I have visited are not up to date. I even had a doctor that didnt know there were tests for lactose intolerance. I had to tell her the different kind of tests and she wrote them down. This is just one example but there are many more. Things like Nystatin and its different forms. I know Candida is controversial within the medical world, but I cant even discuss the topic with a lot of doctors over here. Floggi, maybe you know someone in the NL? It would be great if you could give me some information.

    However relatively new methods like fecal transplants are also performed in the Netherlands. I read an article in mens health about a succesful test performed in the Netherlands. But I really dont think the majority of doctors read every journal. Maybe I will ask my doctor about fecal transplants. I also have some doctor friends, I’ll ask them too. It’s really interesting, especially after you nuked your system with antibiotics…

    Floggi wrote:  
    One major difference between my country and the USA is that over here, antibiotics are really prescribed sparingly. We are really one of the exceptions – in the majority of countries, antibiotics are used much, much more frequently than here.

    Science has been telling us to use antibiotics sparingly for a long time. The problem was public perception. A doctor that refused to prescribe antibiotics was seen as unwilling to help the patient cure a disease. When we made the transition from “antibiotics for everything” to “antibiotics only if there is a real need for them”, some doctors were even literally beaten up badly by angry patient “because they were not doing their job”.

    Luckily, scientific insights have since then transcended not only from science to doctors, but also from both science and doctors to patients.

    Now, we see that multi-resistance (I don’t know the correct English terminology – I mean bacteria that developed resistance against multiple strains of antibiotics) is a rare event here, while it is a big problem elsewhere.

    Can someone from the USA tell why doctors are still prescribing antibiotics so often? They must know the facts by now. Are their unions advising this as a standard measure? Are they afraid to go their own way because American patients demand antibiotics, like it happened here some 20 years ago? Are they afraid to go their own way because they are afraid of lawsuits and huge claims in case one patient happens not to recover?
     

    #89258

    Bucephalus
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    Yes there is a fecal implant study in the netherlands right now that concerning obesity. Where they are putting fecal matter from skinny people into obese people to see if there is a change of behaviour.

    #89267

    Floggi
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    Indeed, that’s a different test. The theory is that obesity is at least partially caused by the bacteria in your gut. They are now testing that theory.

    I have the same experience as KSG with older doctors not knowing as much and not being as open as the younger ones. I think this has to do with the major change in attitude that occurred sometime during the 1970’s. Originally, doctors were like gods. They were perfect, they knew better what was good for us than we did ourselves, and explanation was not neccessary because the patient was too dumb to understand anything.

    When I was much younger, I met some of those old-fashioned doctors.

    In my experience, this attitude has almost died out. There are only few doctors left who still live in that old world, and they are now in their 60’s or even older.

    I’d say that any doctor younger than about 50 is of the new kind, many (not all) doctors older than about 60 are of the old kind, and those in between vary, though most of those are already of the new kind.
     

    #89285

    dvjorge
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    I will tell you about my personal history. I was a very happy married man growing a family. During 2008, when I was 43 y/o, I got an UT infection because I was having symptoms. The symptoms were painful urethra and discomfort. I went to see my MD ( I had a good insurance ) then, he ordered an urine analysis and prescribed a course of Cipro ( 10 days ) I took it and the discomfort continued. The urine analysis turned back negative. I went to see him again, then he told me to repeat the Cipro treatment, I did it again. Nothing changed and the discomfort increased. Then, I went to see another MD (second opinion) I told him all that the first Dr did. The new one repeated the urine analysis and told me to take a course of Azythromicin. He told me probably the bacteria was resistant to Cipro. I did it, nothing changed and I was getting worse. Then, he sent me to see an Urologist ( a famous one in the area with many awards hanging on the wall ) That one told me I had a prostatitis and told me you will see how you gonna solve it this time. He prescribed Levaquin for 25 days. You know what it means ???
    I didn’t know anything about candida and about the damage the antibiotics cause to the flora and I followed my Drs. I have no reason to know it because I am not a Dr. I did the correct thing. I was sick and went to see MDs. You have to understand that the billed the insurance huge amount of money every time I saw them.

    End of the history, Levaquin almost killed me to the point I lost my 21 y/o marriage, my job, my house, my family and all. Adding to all this I was left bed ridden and nobody had an idea what I had. It was simple, I had candida in my UT and after the antibiotics it growth massively in my intestines.

    Something that probably could have an end with a simple Fluconazole treatment, ended destroying my life. Today, it is still 2012, and I am not the half of the stronger and happy man I was. My intestinal flora was devastated and my intestines mined with fungus. Yes, that was what they gave me after paying the consults.

    They are alive because I have an small daughter, I have wished to end with them more than one time.

    Jorge.

    #89291

    Bucephalus
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    THe question is, is it only in your intestines now.
    I’m not sure anyone knows the answer to this. I’m hoping it’s in your intestines only.
    My sister was telling me the other day that there is lady she knows who, if she has antibiotics, she will get thrush “down there”. So what she does is have probiotics before she has the anti-biotics, and guess what? she doesnt’ get the thrush “down there”

    That story gives me great hope that maybe all we have to do is eradicate from the intestines, restore the balance with probiotics/fecal implants, and then we may be cured. The fact maybe that that lady I’m talking about may not have to worry about having probiotics every time she has antibiotics if she simply has a fecal implant from someone who has a more vital gut flora.

    David.

    #89293

    dvjorge
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    Bucephalus wrote: THe question is, is it only in your intestines now.
    I’m not sure anyone knows the answer to this. I’m hoping it’s in your intestines only.
    My sister was telling me the other day that there is lady she knows who, if she has antibiotics, she will get thrush “down there”. So what she does is have probiotics before she has the anti-biotics, and guess what? she doesnt’ get the thrush “down there”

    That story gives me great hope that maybe all we have to do is eradicate from the intestines, restore the balance with probiotics/fecal implants, and then we may be cured. The fact maybe that that lady I’m talking about may not have to worry about having probiotics every time she has antibiotics if she simply has a fecal implant from someone who has a more vital gut flora.

    David.

    David,
    I have done more than one Fecal Transplant at home. Probably, no in the best possible way, so I will repeat some more. Anyway, I don’t think the simple action of inject flora back will displace candida colonies that already took place. What is possible and more plausible is to eradicate, as you said, and inject a super amount of flora from human feces.
    Jorge.

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