Making Very Little Progress

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This topic contains 16 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  barnmouse 5 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #103347

    barnmouse
    Member
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 53

    I have many candida symptoms including vaginal discharge, IC, brain fog, headache, sore throat, oral thrush, anxiety/depression, fatigue and digestive issues and haven’t really made much progress since starting the strict diet a few months ago, and my digestion actually seems to have gotten worse.

    I don’t eat any animal products. Daily I’ve been eating lots of cruciferous veggies including leafy greens and rutabagas, salads, avocados, buckwheat, sprouts, coconut oil (5+ tablespoons until recently), kelp granules, garlic, and lemon/lime juice. Occasionally I’ll have flax/chia seeds, chicory coffee, and coconut milk. I’ve had nutritional yeast a couple of times. I take ashwaganda 1-2 times daily. I take probiotics (100-160 billion cfu) first thing in the morning and last thing at night. I drink water kefir throughout the day. With both of these I’ve been experiencing reflux (burning in my throat) off and on. I have increased my kefir intake a lot lately, now drinking 1 – 1.5 quarts daily. Is this too much? A week ago I started taking this multivitamin and this vitamin D supplement.

    Before the diet, I had digestive issues, but since starting the diet things seem to have gotten worse. Off and on throughout the diet I’ve experienced reflux in my throat, chest tightness, burning, pain and palpitations, stomach cramping, bubbling, gurgling and bloating, and gas. It’s hard for me to distinguish between die-off and an allergic reaction, but the last few weeks it seems like these symptoms are getting worse. The last 2-3 days these symptoms have been almost constant, and yesterday my stools were very loose with a couple bouts of diarrhea. Previously, since starting the diet I’ve fluctuated between loose stools and mild constipation, but my stools were slowing getting more normal the past few weeks. But now it seems that no matter what I eat I feel this way. I don’t even feel like eating anymore.

    Also, about six weeks ago I started experiencing plugged ears and pulsating eardrums, which I’ve experienced only rarely in the past. Additionally, I recently had a routine checkup and my thyroid levels were so low that my doctor wanted to put me on thyroid medication until I explained that I was on an anti-candida protocol. Could it be that this protocol has caused my hypothyroidism? He agreed to forgo the medication for now and asked me to quit the protocol, which I don’t want to abandon, and retest in six weeks. He also said my vitamin D levels were very low. My vitamin D levels were slightly low in the past, but not this much. He wants me on a prescription of 50,000 IU. Does that seem like overkill to anyone? My cholesterol was also higher since my last checkup. This confuses me since I’ve always had excellent cholesterol and no mention of low thyroid before. Is there a way to fix my thyroid issues naturally?

    The past few weeks I cut way back on the herbal teas I was drinking a few times a day which included milk thistle, calendula, licorice, and slippery elm because I wasn’t sure if I was overdoing them. I also cut back on the coconut oil because I wonder if this contributed to my higher cholesterol levels. A couple days ago I cut out buckwheat, sprouts, kefir, probiotics, multivitamins and limited my consumption of cruciferous veggies, garlic and lemon/lime out of desperation. I don’t know if this is overkill but I don’t know what to do at this point and I feel like I need a reset. I also introduced a couple new foods a week or two ago, but as far as I know I don’t usually get a delayed reaction to new things as far as I can tell. My reactions usually occur shortly after, but not days later. I could be wrong though.

    I’ve avoided introducing extra supplements because I don’t want to waste money on supplements that my body might not benefit from, which has happened in the past. With that said, could it be that I have low stomach acid, IBS, GERD, or SIBO? Should I introduce beaine HCl or digestive bitters? What’s the difference between the two? Do they both increase HCl levels in the stomach? Are they both necessary, or is one more effective than the other? I’ve read that bitters haven’t been effective for some people. Also, the Flora Swedish bitters states not to use if you already have diarrhea. Since I don’t eat animal products I would rather not take betaine hcl w/pepsin since it’s derived from swine or bovine. Is this HCl supplement okay?

    Should I also introduce a vitamin C supplement into my regimen? Is this a good supplement?

    Any suggestions and guidance would be greatly appreciated. I don’t know how to proceed. I’m feeling very overwhelmed and concerned right now, especially given my test results. I don’t want to give up, but I need to feel that I’m at least making some progress.

    #103349

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    There is a possibility you have h. pylori, SIBO, and/or parasites and this could contribute to your woes. These problems need a different treatment. If you have a thyroid issue (people on west coast get way more radiation from fukishima than east coast) this can complicate things.

    I would also try out HCL and this should either increase or decrease your acid problems. Another thing that helps with acid problems is other acids such as SF722 and apple cider vinegar.

    A great source of vitamin D is fermented cod liver oil which contains natural ratios of vitamins A and D. You need to take vitamins A and D together to get maximum absorption, the only problem is that no one knows what the healthiest ratio is. I think natural sources contain healthy ratios.

    High cholesterol levels can be attributed to liver issues just by itself. If you cleanse your liver, it should improve your cholesterol levels.

    I’d consider bitters or digestive enzymes. Bitters cause the body to produce many enzymes naturally and digestive enzymes only contain a few types of enzymes.

    Vitamin C is very important so I would take something like 1500mg at first.

    I have a feeling if you healed your liver you would feel a lot better. This can affect so many things in the body, its not even silly. A good naturopath can do this.

    If you are not eating meat, I would try to get this into your diet as well. Protein is very important on the diet and are a good source of minerals.

    -raster

    #103393

    barnmouse
    Member
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 53

    Raster, thanks so much for your reply. I really appreciate your help.

    There is a possibility you have h. pylori, SIBO, and/or parasites and this could contribute to your woes. These problems need a different treatment. If you have a thyroid issue (people on west coast get way more radiation from fukishima than east coast) this can complicate things.

    So how do I know if I have any of these? And how do I go about treating it? Should I discontinue the probiotics? I don’t live on the west coast. Like I said though, this thyroid issue new, so I wonder what’s actually causing it. I was researching a little, and I read cruciferous vegetables should be avoided. So if that’s correct, that really limits what I can eat. Does anyone have any experience with this?

    I would also try out HCL and this should either increase or decrease your acid problems. Another thing that helps with acid problems is other acids such as SF722 and apple cider vinegar.

    On and off throughout the protocol I’ve been drinking a couple of tablespoons of lemon juice with meals. Is apple cider vinegar more effective? I have used it in the past.

    Does anyone have any input on the HCl supplement I linked to? Has anyone taken it?

    I don’t understand why I’m having reflux first thing in the morning before I even eat anything. Actually, it’s constant throughout the day, and I go to sleep feeling bad. And why do things that are supposed to be naturally soothing and anti-inflammatory causing more irritation? Things like ginger, turmeric, peppermint and the herbal teas I mentioned above, as well as the probiotics? I feel like everything is affecting me. Any thoughts on this?

    A great source of vitamin D is fermented cod liver oil which contains natural ratios of vitamins A and D. You need to take vitamins A and D together to get maximum absorption, the only problem is that no one knows what the healthiest ratio is. I think natural sources contain healthy ratios.

    Since I don’t consume animal products, the cod liver oil isn’t an option. I purchased the vitamin D (2400 IU) in the link last week, and I’ll see how that goes. And summer’s coming, so I’ll be getting my vitamin D from the sun.

    The multivitamin I linked to has 5000 IU of vitamin A, and I was taking these together. I know multivitamins aren’t recommended on the protocol, but I just find it cost prohibitive to purchase separate vitamin and mineral supplements. Is it absolutely crucial to my recovery? If so, I’ll have to consider it.

    High cholesterol levels can be attributed to liver issues just by itself. If you cleanse your liver, it should improve your cholesterol levels.

    I was drinking tons of tea with milk thistle and calendula, so I don’t know why my cholesterol is higher. It’s not dangerously high, I just noticed that my levels were higher than last time. I have whole milk thistle seeds and calendula flowers. Would it be more beneficial to powder them and ingest them instead of preparing a tea?

    I’d consider bitters or digestive enzymes. Bitters cause the body to produce many enzymes naturally and digestive enzymes only contain a few types of enzymes.

    The only thing that concerns me about taking Swedish bitters is that the one I linked to, Flora, warns about taking if you have diarrhea, loose stools or abdominal pain. It was the only one I could find that didn’t contain alcohol. Can anyone chime in on what brand they use?

    Vitamin C is very important so I would take something like 1500mg at first.

    Great, I’ll pick this up right away.

    I have a feeling if you healed your liver you would feel a lot better. This can affect so many things in the body, its not even silly. A good naturopath can do this.

    Unfortunately I don’t have money to see a naturopath or all the additional supplements, plus I’m a little leery since so many people haven’t experienced great luck with them.

    If you are not eating meat, I would try to get this into your diet as well. Protein is very important on the diet and are a good source of minerals.

    This isn’t an option for me, as I haven’t eaten meat and decades. I believe I’m getting enough protein, and was regularly eating spirulina but have been slacking because the taste makes me gag. But I’m going to reintroduce it. Actually, I’m going to start incorporating green smoothies into my diet, so I’ll add the spirulina to the smoothies. This is how I’ve taken it in the past.

    Thanks again!

    #103429

    barnmouse
    Member
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 53

    Ok, so I notice sometimes when I take supplements they feel like they get stuck in my throat. But this morning when I woke up, before eating, drinking, or taking any supplements, I had the same feeling. What would cause this?

    I’m feeling very lost right now and would really appreciate some input. My thyroid issues are really concerning me and I’m just confused why I’ve started to react to the food I’m eating.

    #103435

    Able900
    Spectator
    Topics: 92
    Replies: 4811

    You haven’t been following the protocol which must be followed along with the strict diet.

    Look at the multiple vitamins you were taking: The B vitamin percentages are outrageously out of balance. The B vitamin, Biotin, is of major importance during a Candida infestation, and you’re only receiving 25% of your daily requirement whereas you’re receiving 1666% of your B12 daily requirement. This type of imbalance can cause a deficiency of biotin. Don’t start the multiple vitamins back whatever you do, but you can purchase some pure biotin and take those every day. Please read this post to see how important biotin is to the protocol.
    Biotin Deficiency and Candida

    Coconut oil does not normally raise the LDL cholesterol level, but it does raise the HDL level which is a benefit to the overall reading.

    I also introduced a couple new foods a week or two ago, but as far as I know I don’t usually get a delayed reaction to new things as far as I can tell.

    What were the new foods introduced?

    Should I also introduce a vitamin C supplement into my regimen? Is this a good supplement?

    Like I wrote earlier, you’re not following the proper protocol or you would have been taking vitamin C from day one. Start at 1000 mg taken twice a day and slowly raise the amount to 1000 mg taken five times a day. The one you posted is fine.

    I explain very clearly to everyone to whom I send the strict diet that if you do not follow both the protocol and diet, this will greatly lower your chances of reaching a symptom-free state.

    You need to check your protein intake to find out if you’re receiving enough in a 24 hour period.

    Also, you may want to refresh your memory by reading the protocol again. The Protocol

    Able

    #103442

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    Also one more thing I thought I’d add; if you are not getting exersice or are a smoker, this will raise your cholestoral levels…all you need to do is going on simple 30 min walks and it should go down just by doing exercise.

    -raster

    #103520

    barnmouse
    Member
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 53

    Raster and Able, I value the knowledge you both share with the forum and really appreciate your help.

    II believed I was following the protocol. I started on milk thistle, calendula and licorice root, followed by antifungals and then probiotics. I think some of the information has changed a little (or maybe the arrangement of the information has changed) since I started the protocol months ago, and even now what you state about vitamins and minerals is “Between 9 and 12 days after starting the cleanse/diet start taking any Vitamins & Supplements that you decide to take”. I believed I could obtain many of my vitamins and minerals from food sources, and was even using a program to track everything I ate in the beginning to make sure of this. Also, I felt like it was taking me so long to see any results because I feel I’ve candida most, if not all, of my life. But now I know it’s time to make some adjustments, so I’m trying to come up with a new game plan.

    All of the B12 supplements I’ve researched have high percentage values, so I’m not sure what to do about this, but I have discontinued the multivitamin. Regarding the protein, I did reintroduce spirulina a couple days ago. I may add some hemp seed as well. Also, I don’t smoke, but I’ve done a little research and learned that hypothyroidism has an effect on cholesterol.

    I reintroduced oat bran about 5 weeks ago. I had a reaction with it in the very beginning, so I hadn’t tried it again until then. The ear issues began before I ate the oat bran, but I felt a lump/tightness/burning in my throat afterward, so I haven’t eaten it since. Now that I think about it, I’ve been feeling the intense reflux on and off since reintroducing it, but it’s been more constant the past few days. I introduced nutritional yeast 3 weeks ago for the B vitamins and ate it a few times. I’d eaten it several times a week before I started the strict diet, but I’ve read conflicting things about it so I may leave it out for now. Last week I introduced sprouted adzuki beans to give me some extra protein. I felt really spacy after that, so I haven’t had it since. I think the constant reflux started before I introduced the adzuki beans, though.

    So after going over the protocol again (there’s a lot of info and it’s very overwhelming to me), I’ve compiled a list of supplements I’m currently taking and ones I think I need to add. Let me know if I’m missing anything.

    Currently:
    •probiotics – taking a short break from these, but will reintroduce, rotating brands and gradually increasing the cfu count. The highest count I took before stopping was 100 billion twice daily.
    •water kefir – taking a short break from this. I was up to 1 – 1.5 quarts a day. Not sure if that was overkill.
    •coconut oil – I’ve cut back on this a lot, but will start slowly increasing it to 5+ tablespoons.
    •ashwagandha – Withania somnifera, 183 mg; withanolides from total EtOH Extract, 167 mg 1-2 capsules
    •vitamin D – 2400 IU 1-2 capsules. I’ve discontinued this until I get the vitamin A
    •kelp – 1/4 – 1-2 teaspoon
    •spirulina – 1 – 2 tablespoons

    Will add the following:
    •vitamin C w/bioflavonoids and rose hips
    •vitamin A
    •vitamin E
    •Calcium/Magnesium/Zinc
    •Biotin
    •Vitamin B12 – I not sure what to do about this since Able suggested that the values are out of balance
    •Swedish bitters/betaine HCL/applecider vinegar – as I stated in an earlier post, the only Swedish bitters I found warned against taking them if you have loose stools, diarrhea, or abdominal pain, so I’m a little leery about taking them. And the HCL I linked to is derived from beets, so that worries me too. Raster mentioned apple cider vinegar. Is this a suitable alternative to bitters/betaine hcl? How much should I take?
    •selenium – for thyroid function. How much do I need?

    The only antifungals I should be taking now are food based, correct? Hopefully this new regime will help elevate my thyroid levels. That’s the most concerning thing to me right now. Someone suggested H2O2, but I’m not sure how safe this really is.

    I appreciate any additional input you can give me.

    #103531

    alexalgebra
    Member
    Topics: 41
    Replies: 643

    Iodine can be helpful with thyroid issues.

    #103548

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    For the doseage levels on the vitamins…I would do 100-200% daily value. Selenium absorbs best if taken with vitamin E at the same time.

    As far as testing for SIBO, h.pylori, parasites…a doctor’s office would have to do this. These each have symptoms similar to candida. Most people who have candida have parasites and some of us may have other bacteria or flora overgrowth.

    I personally think you are limiting yourself by not consuming animal products. SF722, cod liver oil, and protein/minerals from meat are all things that can improve your situation. I understand its a personal preference/belief but you have health problems as well.

    If you want an alternative HCL product I would check out zypan by standard process.

    The bitters could improve your digestion by getting you to produce more enzymes and thus you break down and digest your food better. I personally tried digestive enzymes and these work in a similar manner, it just does the work instead of your body doing the work.

    I would take a cap full of ACV or spoonful at a time. Make sure its raw organic ACV. Maybe mix with water.

    -raster

    #103587

    barnmouse
    Member
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 53

    Thanks Alex – I’m using kelp granules.

    Maybe I’ll do some more searching to find a different brand of Swedish bitters that don’t contain alcohol. I’m on the fence about digestive enzymes. Did you take them from the beginning of your treatment? Do you still take them?

    I’m assuming I should take 1 tablespoon of ACV with meals. Does it matter whether I take it before or after a meal?

    I think I’ll see how I feel after taking the new supplements for a while before I consider whether I have SIBO. Parasites and h.pylori can be treated with the protocol, right?

    #103608

    shayfo
    Member
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 668

    Hey Barnmouse. I have an underactive thyroid, as well. Google “goitrogenic foods” for a full list of foods that can inhibit thyroid hormone production. Crucifers top the list. However, it seems (according to most sources) that cooking destroys the potentially harmful properties. So make sure you’re cooking your cruciferous veggies, eat some seaweed, take iodine…and give it time. Hormones are slooow.

    I haven’t eaten meat in over 12 years and totally support your decision not to, by the way.

    #103609

    shayfo
    Member
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 668

    Also, just a thought, if you’re not buying gluten-free oat bran, you might consider it. It could be the gluten cross-contamination that’s causing you problems rather than the oat bran itself.

    #103652

    barnmouse
    Member
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 53

    Hi Shayfo, I was eating Bob’s Red Mill gluten free oat bran. It just sucks because before the diet I used to eat steel cut oats almost every day for breakfast.

    Yes, I read about how goitrogenic foods affect the thyroid, and that cooking may destroy these properties. It sucks since this makes up a lot of the veggies on the diet. And they’re also my favorite foods, even outside of the strict diet. How do you deal with this? Do you limit them to a couple times a week?

    If you don’t mind my asking, how long have you had underactive thyroid? How are your levels now? Do you take an iodine supplement in addition to the seaweed? I’m wondering how long it will take to raise my levels and when I should get retested.

    And thanks for supporting my decision not to eat meat. You’re my new best friend!

    #103654

    barnmouse
    Member
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 53

    Oh, and what’s your opinion on sauerkraut or other fermented goitrogenic foods? It would be a shame to have to eliminate them.

    #103658

    shayfo
    Member
    Topics: 18
    Replies: 668

    I’ve probably had low thyroid since I hit puberty (I’m 26 now), honestly, but the only symptoms I really have are that my thyroid looks like my throat is going to give birth to an alien lovechild, and I have a hard time losing weight. And low energy, I guess. I don’t have the other classic symptoms like getting cold easily (I’m the opposite), brittle hair, brittle nails, dry skin. I haven’t had health insurance since high school, so I haven’t had my thyroid evaluated by a doctor. In fact, my mom’s bumblef.ck small-town doctor who looked at my throat when I was in high school told me my thymus was enlarged (maybe he didn’t do so well in anatomy?). Regardless, my thyroid has been having a rough ride, probably not helped by my childhood/teenage/ongoing obsession with peanuts (goitrogen), my soy-filled transition to vegetarian/veganism (goitrogen), and my love of raw broccoli (goitrogen).

    I have only recently started learning about all of this, so I’m not sure how much advice I can offer, but I’ve been taking seaweed-derived iodine for a week or two now, and I stopped eating raw brassicas, and I’ve been trying to eat more non-brassicas, like asparagus and swiss chard and celery. Even if I had health insurance, I would be averse to taking supplementary thyroid hormone, since I’ve read that taking it synthetically can suppress your body’s mechanism for making it naturally. I want my thyroid to recover, not to use medication for the rest of my life. I’m okay with that taking a while. I guess candida has made me patient, sort of. Even just since getting off peanuts, millet, and what soy I was still eating before I started the candida diet seems to have helped me out, since I’ve been losing weight a bit again and my energy is getting better.

    As for sauerkraut, I’ve been mulling this over for a few weeks, and I’ve decided to stick with eating it. I think the benefits outweigh the risks. I guess you would have to evaluate that for yourself. If you find any information about this, I’d be interested.

    Sorry to not be much help. :/ I’m also in the learning phase. I hope you get things figured out!

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