Looking for Guidance – Could this be Candida?

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This topic contains 11 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Javizy 6 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #88314

    nate99
    Member
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 3

    Hello, I am looking for guidance as to a chronic dysfunction from a hairloss drug I took years ago. I posted this on a Marshall Protocol site, but wanted to see if anyone here could give me some guidance:

    “I am a 30 year old male who suffered from hairloss starting when I was quite young. I took finasteride for several years, which gave me sexual side effects. Several times I quit, but I always recovered to my normal state after a few months. Once my hairloss started to progress even further, I switched to a more powerful medication called dutasteride, that is closely related to finasteride. I added it to my shampoo thinking that it wouldn’t effect the rest of my body. Of course, I ended up feeling sexual side effects again, however, my obsession, vanity, and desperation made me continue this treatment sporadically until 3 years ago.

    I finally quit. Within the first year of quitting, I started losing weight and feeling better overall. Towards the end of the first year, I had a horrible food poisoning in China, where i was living at the time. The doctors prescribed me very strong antibiotics (don’t know the name) that continued to hurt my stomach and two nights of IV treatment. I’m not sure if this is related at all to anything, but I had never had this treatment before.

    Within the second year, my overall feelings of well being started to fluctuate. I would feel great for about a week, and then start to feel bad for a few days. Now in my third year, I mostly feel pretty negative almost all of the time.

    My symptoms that were not present in the first year but are almost always present now:

    -Lack of deep sleep
    -Dull ache in the prostate/pelvis area
    -Brain fog, difficulty remembering things, whereas before, my memory was very sharp
    -I don’t feel many emotions anymore, not to the same degree as before
    -Generally feeling fat and doughy
    -Inability to gain much muscle and lose weight at all, particularly around the stomach region
    -Itchiness sometimes all around, sometimes in my nipples, maybe a reaction to foods?
    -Less energy
    -Soreness in my right knee
    -Twitching, not localized to one body part, and especially as I am falling asleep
    -Feeling sick or infected, but unable to get a fever
    -Weak urine stream, like it is blocked
    -Mostly liquid stool
    -Constant gassy feeling, bloated, burping all the time, even up to 5 hours after a meal
    -No morning erections
    -Clear watery semen or dark yellow watery semen
    -Not much feeling of arousal
    -Soft erections
    -Not much feeling during sex
    -Sporadically, I have weeks where I have poor blood flow to hands and feet (they keep falling asleep, or i can hold my hands up and feel blood quickly draining from them)
    -Freezing cold hands and feet
    -Yellow hands and feet
    -When I stand up too fast, I get dizzy
    -Overall lack of connection between mind and whole body
    -Don’t feel anything physically the same anymore, like my whole body is asleep
    -Used to be lactose intolerant, I feel I am not anymore
    -Was diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder as a teen. Had to take low dose SSRI’s occasionally or I would feel panic and stress in my stomach. It’s now been almost a year since I have regularly taken any meds, but I feel pretty much nothing.

    Of course I have been to many doctors over the years, gotten my hormones checked out many times, but everything always comes back in normal range. Docs just tell me it is stress related or all in my head.

    4 months ago, I started taking a centrum multivitamin twice a day. I was taking it just for overall health and didn’t think much about it. By the second day I took it, almost all of my side effects listed above went away like magic. I know how that sounds, but it was true. I thought that it was just my body returning to normal as it had after propecia many times.

    The most noticeable physical effects were an overall feeling that my body was more alive, like it just shook off whatever haze was around it. My urine flow was noticeably faster and fuller. The soreness in my knee was gone. My sleep was deep like it hadn’t been in years. I woke up and remembered what it felt like to wake up rested. And the best part is, my mind was connected to my body again. I could feel attraction to girls again. When I exercised I could feel the pain and the endorphins kicking in. And my mind was clear again. My body started to burn more fat on its own. My family noticed that I was getting thinner and more toned by the day, despite not lifting weights. I sat once after a run, and felt the heat and the wind, and just remembered that THIS was what “normal” felt like.

    Unfortunately, even though I continued to take the multivitamin, the side effects slowly returned. All in all, this lasted over the course of maybe 10 days. By day 10 I was back where I started.

    I researched “multivitamin” on propeciahelp, the website post finasteride syndrome sufferers post on, and I found that it is similar to what other users have experienced when supplementing Vitamin D, which is of course present in the multivitamin. However, all of the users only feel positive effects for a short while then crash back down to normal state.

    If anyone has any opinions on this, please respond.”

    It is important to note that the multivitamin did not have a megadose of vitamin D, just a regular 100%DV amount.

    Also, almost everyone on our forum of Finasteride sufferers who have used Nystatin, have gotten temporary improvements all around that went away when they stopped Nystatin. At least one guy has claimed he recovered using an antifungal/antipathogen protocol.

    Please let me know if anyone has any insight

    #88315

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    Hair loss is definitely related to poor hormonal balance and finasteride is probably the worst way imaginable to treat it. It’s more like torture than treatment, and you’re just lucky you didn’t end up permanently impotent like some men do. 

    The very fact that finasteride works demonstrates how influencing your hormones can affect your hair. I don’t see how a doctor can at once prescribe it and claim there’s nothing wrong with you. It’s all well and good blaming everything on stress until you consider that susceptibility to stress is yet another symptom of disrupted hormonal balance, much like susceptibility to infection.

    You’re experiencing many other obvious hormone problems that are clear from changes in libido, sexual performance, prostate (possibly enlarged?), fatigue, depression (SSRIs bring as much hormonal doom as finasteride) etc. As long as you’re experiencing these symptoms there’s value in continuing to investigate. 

    I’d imagine your doctors would’ve never checked things like oestrogen, progesterone, T3 and reverse T3, prolactin etc. If you’re optimal for all these then you can believe in the “genes cause hair loss” theory in the face of everything epigenetics has shown us over the past couple of decades. 

    Danny Roddy’s ideas on hair loss are interesting. You may not find all you need to know or agree with him on everything, but you might have what you believe about hair loss, serotonin and a few other things turned upside down. As long as you can’t get out of bed, have trouble digesting food and your orgasms suck, you should expect to keep losing hair. Take this as motivation to investigate though. If you didn’t have these signs of hormonal disarray, you’d be stuck believing in evil old uncle 5-alpha reductase.

    #88316

    Latka
    Member
    Topics: 5
    Replies: 128

    You may need to get your hormonal balance checked again, maybe even get a second opinion if you possibly can. A lot of your symptoms are similar to what I had before while also all my tests came back completely within the range and my doctor said that I was probably just depressed. I went to see another doctor who diagnosed me hypothyroid based on my symptoms, these included: low basal temperature and heart rate, brain fog/forgetfulness, depression, poor sleep, sudden weight gain, fatigue, pains and aches, cold hands and feet, and generally not feeling quite alive anymore. One of the signs was that my foot soles were yellow as well.

    One way to check at home if your thyroid isn’t working optimally is to measure your body temperature and your heart rate first thing in the morning before getting up from bed. If your resting heart rate is slower than 65 beats per minute, and your temperature lower than 97.6 F (36.8 Celcius) then this is a clear indication of lowered metabolism. And if this is the case for you, trying a very restricted diet could actually make matters worse. While the Candida diet may help with some of your digestive problems, if you have lowered metabolism already you will need to be extra careful not to go too low on carbs and to make sure you get enough calories to meet your metabolic needs.

    When you had your blood work done did they check vitamin and mineral deficiencies as well? And did they check if you had increased thyroid antibodies?

    #88318

    nate99
    Member
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 3

    I had my hormones checked twice around a year ago, I went to the doctor around 3 or 4 months ago when I had the cold hands and feet symptoms, he said everything about glucose, liver function, and thyroid came up perfectly within range. He did not do vitamin or mineral deficiency checks on me though, and when I asked he said he couldn’t justify running the test because I appeared fine to him. And as far as thyroid, the only number I remember him referring to when he was explaining everything was TSH. A year ago it had tested at 1.15 and 1.45, and then during the cold and yellow hands period it was like 2.95, but he said that it wasn’t a big deal and he couldn’t diagnose me as hypothyroid. He said the cutoff number was 4.

    I’ve theorized that the return of my feeling and energy level had to do with metabolism, as in my metabolism right now is lowered.

    Is there a specific test I’m supposed to do to check this out? Could this be candida related? Does this mean I should not do something like this diet?

    I just wish I knew what was wrong with me….

    I’ll try the test that you mentioned for metabolism tomorrow morning, as well as search more for tests and treatments of lowered metabolic activity/energy problems….

    The doctor did theorize that I just felt better taking that multivitamin because of the vitamin B complex that raised my metabolism temporarily

    By the way atka, thanks for your post…I’m glad someone finally can relate to my symptoms! In your post you gave me a lot to relate to and think about.

    May I ask how things ended up for you once you got the hypothyroid diagnosis? I assume hypothyroid must relate to lowered metabolic activity…

    #88327

    Latka
    Member
    Topics: 5
    Replies: 128

    That’s what I suspected, they only looked at the TSH levels. The TSH levels alone are not not reliable enough for determining whether or not you are hypothyroid. Unfortunately it is very common practice for doctors to only test the TSH and if it looks normal (as it did for me too) they just exclude any posibility of hypothyroidism and tell you that you are fine. And if you don’t feel fine it’s obviously all in your head because according to the tests you are fine.

    I am not concluding that you are hypothyroid, as I cannot know that. I just think you need a more thorough testing and consideration to get a more complete picture of what is going on. That might include testing for deficiencies as well. For example having very low vit B can also be a sign of hypothyroidism. I am just speculating but if that was the case then it might explain why you felt better with the vitamin B complex. I don’t see why else taking vitamin B would temporarily raise your metabolism as such – did your doctor explain what he meant by that? I was put on iron and vit B injections in the beginning of my treatment because I was way too low on them; I remember the injections making a big difference to my energy levels already and that was before starting my hormonal supplementation therapy.

    And of course there are other tests to consider; for example, as Javizy already mentioned, the reverse T3 levels; if reverse T3 is high it will interfere with the cells ability to utilise T3 and then it doesn’t matter if your thyroid levels are normal if the body isn’t able to use them.

    The reason why I asked if they tested you for elevated thyroid antibodies is because that might also explain the temporarily increased metabolism for a period. I have Hashimotos disease, an auto immune disease where the immune system is destroying my thyroid gland. Before I was diagnosed I had periods of feeling very low energy and periods of feeling very energetic; kind of swinging between hypo- and hyper thyroid. Apparently this was caused by the immune attack on my thyroid; generally speaking as the gland is being destroyed there will be lessened production of thyroid hormone (lowered metabolism) but sometimes the destruction of the gland can also lead into the destroyed tissues releasing increased amounts of thyroid for a short time (thus the increased metabolism). It might be an idea to have the anti-TPOs checked just in case and if there are any abnormalities, the doctor should at least consider the possibility of hypothyroidism. My doctor has written an article where he explains why that is the case but it is in Norwegian so I won’t link it here.
    Another useful book explaining thyroid related issues is: Your thyroid and how to keep it healthy. By: Dr Barry Durrant-Peatfield.

    nate99 wrote: I just wish I knew what was wrong with me….

    I can so relate to this. I used to feel like that for years. That is why I react so strongly to your doctor not checking things properly and just telling you that you are fine regardless of how you feel. Because I have experienced it myself and therefore know that when I didn’t feel fine it was because I wasn’t fine. There’s always a reason! And it looks like your doctor isn’t doing a good job in finding out or helping you. If you can, try another doctor. You may need to search a bit to find a good one. In any case if you have thyroid problems your best bet is to do your own research so that you can confront your doctor if that needs to be. Here’s a good site for reference: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

    And yes, hypothyroidism relates to lowered metabolic activity. The best and easiest way to test metabolism is to check the body temperature and heart rate.

    For me things got a LOT better soon after starting on the hormonal supplementation therapy for hypothyroidism. However my temperatures are still low. I feel better but according to my doctor I should be better than I am, and he doesn’t quite know why I am not responding as expected. That is why in my own research I’ve come to consider the role of blood sugar regulation and nutrition for the cellular metabolism as crucial aspects in regulating the thyroid function. In order to function the cells do need sugar (as well as salt, water, oxygen) and that is why I warn against too strict, low carb diets if you already have lowered metabolism. My temperatures dropped to 92F after 1 month of low carbing! Low metabolism also causes constipation and that is not helpful for getting rid of Candida if that’s the problem. And it is possible that Candida overgrowth might be causing some of your problems, but if you decide to follow the diet just keep measuring your body temperature to keep a check that it doesn’t start dropping more (that is, if it is already low). But as I said, even though I am not completely well, I am so much better than a year ago.

    #88360

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    I would consider trying out the protocol for a few weeks and see if you experience any die-off symptoms. Eventually, over the long term, eating a good healthy organic diet can cure many problems…which sound like they are tied the gut.

    https://www.thecandidadiet.com/forum/yaf_postst1334_From-Able-and-Raster-The-Protocol.aspx

    -raster

    #88372

    Latka
    Member
    Topics: 5
    Replies: 128

    raster: It’s great that you have such faith in the protocol and while it has probably helped many I think it would be important to acknowledge that it is not necessarily a one size fits all solution. Because every case is different. It was precisely during the protocol that I further damaged my metabolism and destroyed my health. My already lowered body temperatures (around 95F) dropped down to 92F and many of my hypothyroid symptoms returned. I have spent months now just trying to fix the metabolic damage I caused myself.

    That is why I think it would be important to consider that if there are clear signs of already lowered metabolism/hypothyroidism then one should approach carb restricted diets with caution. In the case of someone hypothyroid measuring the temperatures to see if they are improving or lowering is a good indication to go by in determining whether something is working. Because having a body temperature below 98 F is not normal, and it means the body isn’t operating normally. And if it cannot operate normally how can it heal? There are so many aspects to be considered. The diet is important of course, and I agree that in the long term eating a good healthy organic, and balanced, diet can heal many problems.

    The danger is that there are so many people not getting any help from their doctors and then they end up finding their own answers on the internet. It is so easy to just self-diagnose based on reading something online and then jump into trying some protocol in the desperation of wanting to get better. I certainly did that and ended up causing more harm to myself.

    #88378

    nate99
    Member
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 3

    I think what you are saying Latka, makes sense

    I would love to hear your whole story actually, like how your whole ordeal started, and to what degree did the candida diet help you, and how you thought to even start with candida. I thought I PM’ed you yesterday but cannot find a copy of that message in my profile, so if you would like to PM me your whole story, I would love to read it

    Results: resting heart rate during the day is 57 bpm, in the morning, did it twice, 60 and 62 bpm

    temperature in the morning, 97.2 i think (using old timey mercury thermometer instead of a digital, so it is a little hard to read)

    When my doctor looked at my low bpm, he just thought for a second and said, “Well…you exercise….so it should be lower.” I then said, “But you said just a moment ago that I should be doing more exercise, that is probably why my hands and feet are not getting circulation….” it was such an exercise in frustration and having the doctor just block everything that I was saying. I was even telling him I can feel the blood draining from my hands only like two seconds after I raise my hands, and every time I stand up I can feel light headed and i can feel blood rushing to my head. He was just like, “Eh, that’s normal”

    The past three years I have been living abroad, and the doctors I have been seeing have been Asian doctors. I’m hoping when I get insurance I’ll find a better doctor here in America, and with the recent public news coverage of Post Finasteride Syndrome, I’m hoping my doctor will see that I could have a problem without it clearly showing up on a test

    raster, I’ve been trying to follow the protocol for the last two weeks. Without the initial period of just eating vegetables and without the use of an antifungal. I feel that my digestion is better and cleaner, but I still feel the low metabolism effects.

    One question, Will using one or more of the natural antifungals work just as well as the prescription strength ones? I’d be more comfortable with the natural antifungals, even if they take longer to work

    #88380

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    Metabolism is definitely key to improving health. A restrictive diet that makes you cold and slows digestion will begin to cause more allergies and bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine. This isn’t a guaranteed effect of the protocol though. It depends on where you’re starting from metabolically, and how you end up implementing it. This is why it’s important to avoid jumping into anything. Some people seem to do well, and it seems to be the people eating the most foods and getting a good amount of calories.

    What kind of exercise do you do? Endurance exercise can lower your pulse, but I don’t think anaerobic stuff (sprints, weights) would. If you’re running for long periods, you may have identified one source of your problems. Endurance exercise is literally stress. Just check your pulse 30-minutes after a workout and you’ll see stress hormones are still driving it high, assuming you’re still able to produce them adequately. Active thyroid hormone reaches zero after about 40-minutes of running.

    Part of the problem with doctors is that they specialise in pathology. Like you mentioned, a TSH of 4 is considered the “limit” for hypothryoidism, but health doesn’t work on these arbitrary thresholds. If you have a disease, you’ll be able to get some form of treatment, but if you want your failing “within range” health optimised, you’re probably going to have to start researching and experimenting, using your doc’s help as much as you can. What are other reasons your pulse and temps are low, or what other explanations are there for hair loss and depression? Are there any biomarkers you can look for in tests? What links all these together? Can you influence them with diet, lifestyle changes, medication or supplements?

    #88411

    nate99
    Member
    Topics: 2
    Replies: 3

    Thank you for the input and suggestions Avizy

    About exercise, well you guessed it, i’m mostly a runner, usually just a couple of miles or 20 minutes, a few times a week. But this is pretty much how i’ve always exercised since i was a teenager, it’s just in the last year, starting two years after quitting the hairloss drugs, I’ve found it more difficult to run. Less energy for sure. And when I run, there is a lack of feeling in my whole body, not like before. When I do lift weights, it is very difficult for me to put on any muscle.

    Well, the hairloss thing is not part of the equation. I started balding at around 19 or 20, it’s just hereditary, every male on my dad’s side of the family went through it. If only I could have just accepted it at the time, I feel i wouldn’t be going through any of this.

    The only part of the equation that is a mystery to me is the crash after quitting the hairloss drugs. I know what it is supposed to feel like when the testosterone levels return to normal. However, this last time, even years since quitting the drug, the testosterone levels returned to normal, but the feeling of normalcy did not return.

    We’ve all been trying to think of a common thread that unites all of the sufferers of this syndrome but we can’t. Not all of our symptoms are even the same. For some sufferers, their hormone levels never returned to even normal range. My symptoms seem like hypothyroidism, but others seem like hyperthyroidism. The variety of symptoms is just unbelievable.

    On a possibly related note, I started eating more grains again today, definitely feel less energy through my body

    #88423

    Latka
    Member
    Topics: 5
    Replies: 128

    Your temperature and heart rate are certainly low and would indicate hypothyroidism. I remember getting that same response actually: “low heart rate is good, just means you are very fit!”. But the thing was, if I was so fit why did I struggle climbing up one flight of stairs!? My muscles felt like I had just finished the Ironman competition. What use is such “fitness”! Also if you are hypothyroid you can exercise all you like but it is hardly going to make you warm – if there isn’t enough thyroid your body simply isn’t capable of producing heat!

    I hope you can find another doctor. And if not you might want to take a look at the book I referenced in my other post – it can possibly give you the information you need to confront your doctor in the hope that he will reconsider. It is actually very common that when people complain hypothyroid symptoms to their doctors (weight gain, cold hands and feet) they get the the responses; “just exercise more and eat less” or “wear warmer clothing”. The book discusses this as well. The website I sent can also be a good guide. I actually ended up changing doctors and now I have a doctor who actually listens to me.

    I used to do a lot of running too. And I’ve done Triathlon in the past. Not long ago I read an article on how doing cardio can actually lower the production of T3. It has also been suggested that the lowered heart rate of endurance atheletes is not as much a sign of fitness as it is an indication of thyroid damage. That is certainly an interesting consideration. I have also noticed that if I push myself to exercise a lot my temps go down, whereas if I rest, my temps rise again.

    Btw, I find grains very hard to digest and personally aim to get my sugar from root vegetables and fruits (these being mostly illegal on the candida diet, mind you). Ray Peat suggests that having some saturated fat (i.e. coconut oil) together with grains can make them easier to digest.

    About antifungals that you asked about: I’d try the natural ones. I had a bad reaction to the prescription ones so cannot really recommend them though I’ve heard many tolerate them just fine. Just sounds like your body’s been through a lot and it might be a good idea to go about it carefully.

    I’ll send you my story later on on pm.

    #88426

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    nate99 wrote: Thank you for the input and suggestions Avizy

    About exercise, well you guessed it, i’m mostly a runner, usually just a couple of miles or 20 minutes, a few times a week. But this is pretty much how i’ve always exercised since i was a teenager, it’s just in the last year, starting two years after quitting the hairloss drugs, I’ve found it more difficult to run. Less energy for sure. And when I run, there is a lack of feeling in my whole body, not like before. When I do lift weights, it is very difficult for me to put on any muscle.

    Well, the hairloss thing is not part of the equation. I started balding at around 19 or 20, it’s just hereditary, every male on my dad’s side of the family went through it. If only I could have just accepted it at the time, I feel i wouldn’t be going through any of this.

    The only part of the equation that is a mystery to me is the crash after quitting the hairloss drugs. I know what it is supposed to feel like when the testosterone levels return to normal. However, this last time, even years since quitting the drug, the testosterone levels returned to normal, but the feeling of normalcy did not return.

    We’ve all been trying to think of a common thread that unites all of the sufferers of this syndrome but we can’t. Not all of our symptoms are even the same. For some sufferers, their hormone levels never returned to even normal range. My symptoms seem like hypothyroidism, but others seem like hyperthyroidism. The variety of symptoms is just unbelievable.

    On a possibly related note, I started eating more grains again today, definitely feel less energy through my body

    I don’t buy the hereditary argument; at least not completely. Genes play a role in many diseases, but in many cases their expression largely depends on environment – this is what I meant when I mentioned epigenetics in my first post. Genes aren’t set it stone; they can be de/activated by all sorts of factors. Maybe your relatives have their own health problems and don’t have particularly optimal diet/lifestyle and environment.

    Why do balding men have elevated prolactin levels? Why do chronic stress, poor thyroid function and malnutrition almost invariably cause hair loss? What about all the drugs that have hair loss as a side-effect? If “it’s hereditary” is an acceptable explanation, why are so many internal and external variables able to influence it? You could ask similar questions in regard to diabetes and many other diseases blamed on genetics. 

    If you search PubMed for hair loss and hormone names, you’ll see that parathyroid hormone, prolactin, serotonin, o/estrogen and cortisol can all cause hair loss, whereas T3 (study here) and progesterone have been shown experimentally to regrow hair. If genes were the determining factor, I don’t understand how hormones can dictate things in this way. 

    You’re right that accepting hair loss is better than destroying your health trying to prevent it, but if it’s a symptom of some imbalance, maybe it can give you some clues to help you get better. Health is more important than awesome hair, but maybe improving one improves the other. It’s worth investigating.

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