Kefir and Nystatin enemas !!!

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  • #70790

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    I open this post to let you know about my progress using this two things. First, Kefir, I pulled it out of my diet because it was stopping my progress. Instead, I left plain yogurt and I have felt die off again. Kefir stopped the die off, and I didn’t feel worse but didn’t allow me to advance.
    Second, Nystatin powder enemas using an small enema bottle with 6 onz of water with around 500 000 units of Nystatin refrigerated powder. I do it in a retention way. I try to hold it 1 hour or more. The difference has been huge. It is incredible the amount of white formations, white threads that come out with these enemas.
    I recommend all you to do the Nystatin enemas and you will see the results fast. Sometimes, the antifungals have low activity in the colon because they are absorbed at the upper part of the GI tract. With enemas, you are given antifungals both way.
    Jorge.

    #70803

    Able900
    Spectator
    Topics: 92
    Replies: 4811

    dvjorge wrote: Kefir, I pulled it out of my diet because it was stopping my progress.

    To Clarify Jorge’s Post:

    Jorge, pardon me, but when you make a statement on the forum such as, “Kefir, I pulled it out of my diet because it was stopping my progress” – you really should be more specific for the sake of the members who are going to the trouble of making their own kefir. The last time you mentioned kefir you were eating Lifeway commercial kefir containing 12 grams of sugar. No one on the forum has recommended such a brand or a kefir product containing 12 grams of sugar. The fermentation process is in question when you purchase premade commercial kefir; if it was not fermented properly, the sugar remains in the end product, but this amount is unknown and would not show up on the label. The recommendation on the forum is to have homemade kefir only. Unless you started making your own kefir in the last week or so, and failed to mention it on the forum, I can only assume that you continued the Lifeway commercial kefir, and if you did, it’s no big surprise that you had problems, and I’m surprised they were not worse.

    Able

    #70806

    kirstyk4
    Member
    Topics: 9
    Replies: 125

    And if its the same Lifeway Kefir I picked up several weeks ago, it is 99% lactose free but still has the 12g of sugar. So I guess that means there are 12g of yummy sugar per serving for the Candida.

    I bet the benefits of the probiotics in the kefir just couldn’t keep up with the downside of the sugar.

    I hope you find some better luck with homemade kefir.

    Kirsty

    #70815

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    It is commercial grade plain Kefir. 12 g of sugar but no sugar added according to the makers. !
    Jorge.

    #70817

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    kirstyk4 wrote: And if its the same Lifeway Kefir I picked up several weeks ago, it is 99% lactose free but still has the 12g of sugar. So I guess that means there are 12g of yummy sugar per serving for the Candida.

    I bet the benefits of the probiotics in the kefir just couldn’t keep up with the downside of the sugar.

    I hope you find some better luck with homemade kefir.

    Kirsty

    How can you avoid the sugar in the home made Kefir ???

    I will contact Lifeway for second time. I already did in the past, and according to them, the Plain version they make doesn’t have any other ingredient added but raw milk and the grains. Anyway, I have some more question for them. I won’t use Kefir for now neither commercial, nor home made. I have seen to many conflicts about Kefir that I prefer to avoid it. I have been involved in debates about Kefir in the Whole Approach Forum (with Tarilee and Linda) They don’t advice it in their protocol. Mike, the guy that runs Candida Support Forum doesn’t like it either. Some books such as one written by Trowbridge and other by Rona, don’t allow Kefir either.
    My point of view is there are some candida cases (probably the junior cases) that progress with Kefir, others that have a more chronic or severe case no. Kefir should be adviced with caution as an experimental item but not as an always free of risk item.
    Jorge.

    #70818

    ICanDad
    Member
    Topics: 7
    Replies: 19

    Hi dvjorge,

    Can you list the specific reason(s) why others don’t recommend drinking kefir during their candida treatment?

    The reason I ask is because since I started drinking kefir for a week, I felt I have reaction to it too and my skin started to itch again.

    I absolutely love the taste of milk kefir, and I think I am a little crazy about it. I also don’t feel hungry anymore because I drink about 1 liter per day.

    I think I drink too much so I have reaction. Or I think my kefir is not fermented long enough, so I am now trying to lengthen the fermentation time from 12 hours to 24 hours and reduce my kefir intake from 1 liter to 1 cup per day.

    Thanks a lot!

    #70819

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    ICanDad wrote: Hi dvjorge,

    Can you list the specific reason(s) why others don’t recommend drinking kefir during their candida treatment?

    The reason I ask is because since I started drinking kefir for a week, I felt I have reaction to it too and my skin started to itch again.

    I absolutely love the taste of milk kefir, and I think I am a little crazy about it. I also don’t feel hungry anymore because I drink about 1 liter per day.

    I think I drink too much so I have reaction. Or I think my kefir is not fermented long enough, so I am now trying to lengthen the fermentation time from 12 hours to 24 hours and reduce my kefir intake from 1 liter to 1 cup per day.

    Thanks a lot!

    The main reason why you should keep Kefir and all diary out of the diet is the casein.
    Candida sufferers are very sensitive because the intestinal lining is inflammated. Casein is a top allergen that generates an immune reaction instantly if touch the bloodstream. Another reason could be the lactose. Theoretically, the lactose is used by the bacterias after the fermentation process , but it is hard to measure the amount of lactose you are ingesting when drinking kefir.
    The most important reason,IMO, is the high amount of reports from candida sufferers that react to Kefir or see no benefits of using it. There are still some that report no problems and can tolerate it.
    I see Kefir and Yogurt as experimental items very individual but to advice them as a part of an integral protocol without a warning is a mistake in my opinion. Kefir and yogurt aren’t as safe as a green salad for candida sufferers.
    Jorge.

    #70821

    Able900
    Spectator
    Topics: 92
    Replies: 4811

    dvjorge wrote: How can you avoid the sugar in the home made Kefir ???

    You avoid the sugar in kefir by making it yourself and fermenting it longer than recommended. A longer fermenting period assures that the sugar in the kefir is absorbed/destroyed by the fermentation. The only way kefir can cause an infestation of Candida albicans to worsen is when the kefir is not left to ferment long enough which leads to sugar remaining behind in the finished product, making it possible to feed the Candida.

    Also a longer fermentation period increases the level of beneficial acids produced by the bacteria in the kefir which is basically what the kefir is all about as far as a Candida infestation is concerned because …
    acids produced by Lactobacillus bacteria prevent Candida yeast from changing into its hyphal-fungal form otherwise known as Candida albicans.

    Kefir fermentation is such a simple process that I’ve never understood why so many seemingly intelligent people find it so difficult to comprehend;

    Candida turns fungal when the pH balance in the intestines becomes too alkaline because, to put it as simply as I can, an alkaline environment turns on the fungal growth gene of the Candida yeast.

    Lactic acid bacteria, which are plentiful in well fermented kefir, along with other forms of probiotics change the pH balance in the intestines back to acidic which then turns off the Candida growth gene. This changes the Candida albicans back to the original benign yeast form and prevents further yeast from going fungal.

    Able

    #70822

    ICanDad
    Member
    Topics: 7
    Replies: 19

    dvjorge wrote:

    The main reason why you should keep Kefir and all diary out of the diet is the casein.
    Candida sufferers are very sensitive because the intestinal lining is inflammated. Casein is a top allergen that generates an immune reaction instantly if touch the bloodstream. Another reason could be the lactose. Theoretically, the lactose is used by the bacterias after the fermentation process , but it is hard to measure the amount of lactose you are ingesting when drinking kefir.
    The most important reason,IMO, is the high amount of reports from candida sufferers that react to Kefir or see no benefits of using it. There are still some that report no problems and can tolerate it.
    I see Kefir and Yogurt as experimental items very individual but to advice them as a part of an integral protocol without a warning is a mistake in my opinion. Kefir and yogurt aren’t as safe as a green salad for candida sufferers.
    Jorge.

    Hi Jorge,

    Thanks for your reply.

    Since casein or lactose could be the major problems, I think I will try water kefir as an alternative, so that I can eliminate the effect of casein.

    I will use cane sugar for water fermentation. What is the type of sugar in cane sugar? Sucrose?

    I will try to ferment it long enough and hope I will have no reaction to it.

    Thanks!

    #70823

    Able900
    Spectator
    Topics: 92
    Replies: 4811

    ICanDad wrote: I started drinking kefir for a week, I felt I have reaction to it too and my skin started to itch again.

    The itch could just as well be a die-off reaction rather than the Candida itself or even an allergic reaction. Living Candida would respond only if the kefir fermentation period was too short therefore allowing too much sugar to remain behind. Good idea to try fermenting a little longer and test it.

    People who have reactions during a good Candida treatment far too often place the blame on either live Candida or an allergic reaction when more times than not it’s being caused by the die-off effect. This is why it’s so important to follow directions to eliminate as many of the die-off toxins as possible during the entire treatment.

    Able

    #70837

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    Able900 wrote:

    How can you avoid the sugar in the home made Kefir ???

    You avoid the sugar in kefir by making it yourself and fermenting it longer than recommended. A longer fermenting period assures that the sugar in the kefir is absorbed/destroyed by the fermentation. The only way kefir can cause an infestation of Candida albicans to worsen is when the kefir is not left to ferment long enough which leads to sugar remaining behind in the finished product, making it possible to feed the Candida.

    Also a longer fermentation period increases the level of beneficial acids produced by the bacteria in the kefir which is basically what the kefir is all about as far as a Candida infestation is concerned because …
    acids produced by Lactobacillus bacteria prevent Candida yeast from changing into its hyphal-fungal form otherwise known as Candida albicans.

    Kefir fermentation is such a simple process that I’ve never understood why so many seemingly intelligent people find it so difficult to comprehend;

    Candida turns fungal when the pH balance in the intestines becomes too alkaline because, to put it as simply as I can, an alkaline environment turns on the fungal growth gene of the Candida yeast.

    Lactic acid bacteria, which are plentiful in well fermented kefir, along with other forms of probiotics change the pH balance in the intestines back to acidic which then turns off the Candida growth gene. This changes the Candida albicans back to the original benign yeast form and prevents further yeast from going fungal.

    Able

    I am not totally convinced that the candida albicans mutation is totally Ph dependable. The intestinal Ph has influence and favor one form or other but the switch to a pathogenic form is more linked to an immune tolerance than the Ph,IMO.
    The idea of CRC provoked by low level of Lactic Acid producers is circulating in the web since this syndrome is known. I have read all the medical abstracts and articles you find in the web supporting candida albicans growth better as a pathogen when the Ph is alkaline. But, I have also read many other abstracts linking the mutation to other conditions and genetic changes.
    The most advanced research regarding to this syndrome was done for Dr. Truss. ( He discovered it and dedicated all his life to research it ) Dr. Truss was convinced this syndrome is caused by an immune adaptability to the fungus. My experience support it. I had the fungal overgrowth progressing slowly even when my flora wasn’t disturbed.
    Otherwise, I have been following hundreds of stories and cases in the forums, and the reality is some people have done incredible efforts in order to recover or modulate the intestinal flora taking probiotics, fermented products, and even fecal transplants from healthy people. I don’t know about any of these cases that can claim to be cured without abandoning the diet and supplements. Yes, most of these people reach a point where they can manage it with a diet and feel relative well.
    The problem is this kind of treatment goes against the fungus and don’t offer corrections about how to correct the immune tolerance to the fungus. I am a living example of this case. I have spent hundreds of dollars in Kefir, Probiotics, Prebiotics, etc. I have also done 5 Fecal Transplants from my daughter and all these haven’t corrected the fungal overgrowth.
    On the other hand, some who have worked correcting immune suppressors and reducing immune load such as mercury have found a cure totally independent of what they eat or the way they live. These testimonies are in the web, in the forums, etc.
    You have to think I have done all, know people who have done more than me following the protocols you find in the web without permanent results. The thing isn’t as easy that following a diet and drinking Kefir correct it. I mean when you have a severe fungal overgrowth. We also need to remain most people are self diagnosed and come to the forums thinking they have CRC when they don’t, or have a very light case.
    I am not telling the flora can have influence but this problem isn’t flora dependable but immune dependable. You can have good levels of Lactobacillus and Bifidus and still have candida. If the CDSAs I have taken from Genova Lab aren’t lying, I have very good levels of Lactos, Bifidus, and E.Coli. They also report good levels of Butyric Acid, Lactic Acid and bacterial benefical by-products. I have tried to proof everything with my resources, and one thing I have done is asking in the antibiotic forums if everybody gets a fungal overgrowth when have taken long antibiotic course. The answer isn’t. Some people have taken huge amount of broad spectrum antibiotics for long time, and they don’t have CRC. So, the rule of disturbing the flora don’t apply to everybody. I have two cases in my own family. Both took antibiotics for more than 6 months (liver surgery, and accident) Both are perfect eating what they want and drinking beers. Of course they had the flora damaged at some point, so why they din’t acquired a fungal overgrowth ?? The answer is simple. Their immune system don’t tolerate fungus, my does. !
    I know you like to research and study it, if you go deep, you will realize of many things I also had to change to have hope of finding the way to recover my life.
    Jorge.

    #70842

    Able900
    Spectator
    Topics: 92
    Replies: 4811

    dvjorge wrote: “…this problem (is) immune dependable.”

    Exactly, and as I’ve explained at least a dozen times before on the forum, a huge portion of the immune system and the part of the immune system that controls the fungus is the intestinal flora. In other words, as far as my understanding goes, when you type “immune system” or “immunity” in connection with Candida overgrowth, you’re talking about the intestinal flora.

    Fact: The human gastro-intestinal tract, including the flora, makes up approximately 70% of the human immune system.

    dvjorge wrote: “Their immune system don’t tolerate fungus, mine does.!”

    Reply: Immunity is a “learned” response (literally). Beneficial bacteria is the teacher, the immune system being the student: even an immune tolerance can be reversed if given the time and tools.

    Thanks, Able

    #70843

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    dvjorge seems pretty biased against kefir based on his experience with only a high-sugar commercial form. You’re likely to read lots of negative comments about it on forums, since people may be taking a similarly high-sugar version, not fermenting it properly, introducing it too early, drinking too much, heating it or who knows what else. This is why anecdotal “evidence” is often regarded as trash.

    dvjorge, instead of constantly going on about how bad kefir is and continuing to spend hundreds of dollars on a form that clearly isn’t helping, why don’t you try making some yourself? Is the kind you buy even made with organic milk? I really can’t take your comments about kefir seriously as long as you continue drinking a high-sugar commercial variety. It just goes against common sense.

    #70846

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    Javizy wrote: dvjorge seems pretty biased against kefir based on his experience with only a high-sugar commercial form. You’re likely to read lots of negative comments about it on forums, since people may be taking a similarly high-sugar version, not fermenting it properly, introducing it too early, drinking too much, heating it or who knows what else. This is why anecdotal “evidence” is often regarded as trash.

    dvjorge, instead of constantly going on about how bad kefir is and continuing to spend hundreds of dollars on a form that clearly isn’t helping, why don’t you try making some yourself? Is the kind you buy even made with organic milk? I really can’t take your comments about kefir seriously as long as you continue drinking a high-sugar commercial variety. It just goes against common sense.

    You can do whatever you want. My comments weren’t directed to you. Good Luck with your home made kefir.
    Jorge.

    #70850

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    Able900 wrote:

    “…this problem (is) immune dependable.”

    Exactly, and as I’ve explained at least a dozen times before on the forum, a huge portion of the immune system and the part of the immune system that controls the fungus is the intestinal flora. In other words, as far as my understanding goes, when you type “immune system” or “immunity” in connection with Candida overgrowth, you’re talking about the intestinal flora.

    Fact: The human gastro-intestinal tract, including the flora, makes up approximately 70% of the human immune system.

    dvjorge wrote: “Their immune system don’t tolerate fungus, mine does.!”

    Reply: Immunity is a “learned” response (literally). Beneficial bacteria is the teacher, the immune system being the student: even an immune tolerance can be reversed if given the time and tools.

    Thanks, Able

    CRC isn’t a syndrome caused by lack of intestinal flora but about immune tolerance to the fungus. Until you don’t learn this part, you will be going in circle with your theory.
    If you feel comfortable thinking the flora is the most important part, continue with your thoughts. This debate won’t change the course of my mind. At the end, I don’t see any intent to re-build the flora negative as long as what you use don’t feed the fungus.
    Jorge.

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