"in many people even with strict diet and anti-fungals, candida can survuve"

Home The Candida Forum Candida Questions "in many people even with strict diet and anti-fungals, candida can survuve"

This topic contains 32 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  dvjorge 7 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #72217

    catlover345
    Member
    Topics: 19
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    I read this somewhere along the forum. Is this because candida can adopt to different environments? well, is there anything additional you can to do prevent? this and why “in many people” this would happen and not others? x

    #72220

    Lucylu
    Member
    Topics: 31
    Replies: 345

    What was the context of the quote?

    Was it a discussion on Probiotics? You cannot get your Candida fully under control with just diet & antifungals, you need a really good probiotic too.

    Or was it saying that you don’t actually “kill” off your candida, you reduce it to a level that is manageable and that does not cause your problems. Everyone have Candida in their system as such… but only some have developed into Candida Albican due to various factors (unbalanced diet, antiboics, stress, etc etc) .

    Does that clarify anything for you?

    #72223

    catlover345
    Member
    Topics: 19
    Replies: 43

    No i think they meant in general, not reffering to the probiotics. I can’t find where it was though.. i think able900 or something might have said it.

    #72224

    catlover345
    Member
    Topics: 19
    Replies: 43

    Btw is there a difference between candida and candida albicans? i thought they were the same thing..

    #72227

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    It’s true in general because you’ll never have a decent digestive or immune system without strong colonies of various strains of probiotics, and as long as you have bad digestion and immunity, you’ll have candida. Able has said that a good probiotic will be the single most important thing in your battle with candida. The diet and anti-fungals simply help control the candida and create a beneficial environment for probiotics. Probiotics are a pretty interesting topic to read up on. They play vital roles in all sorts of bodily functions; they’re not just a supplement you need to take when you’re sick.

    #72229

    Lucylu
    Member
    Topics: 31
    Replies: 345

    Candida = Any of the yeastlike imperfect fungi of the genus Candida that are normally present on the skin and in the mucous membranes of the mouth, intestinal tract, and vagina, and that may become pathogenic, especially Candida albicans, the causative agent of thrush.

    In other words, Candida is always there in everyone… but Candida Ablicans (or candida overgrowth) causes thrush & other symptoms. The confusing part is that most people shorten Candida Albicans to “Candida”.

    #72238

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    This quote is pretty right on as far as truthfullness. Candida can adapt to almost any food item and can live on foods even on the allowed foods list. However, it has a harder time living on these foods when compared to its previous diet, which included grains, sugars, dairy, and perhaps alcohol. Candida will live on despite killing it off with the diet, antifungals, supplements, etc…its a naturally occurring yeast that we do need to survive. We just don’t need it in its overgrown, fungicidal state.

    -raster

    #72248

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    Javizy wrote: It’s true in general because you’ll never have a decent digestive or immune system without strong colonies of various strains of probiotics, and as long as you have bad digestion and immunity, you’ll have candida. Able has said that a good probiotic will be the single most important thing in your battle with candida. The diet and anti-fungals simply help control the candida and create a beneficial environment for probiotics. Probiotics are a pretty interesting topic to read up on. They play vital roles in all sorts of bodily functions; they’re not just a supplement you need to take when you’re sick.

    Your answer is close but not specific to the cause.
    The most important part of an anticandida battle is to unload the immune system. It is the immune system which can prevent the overgrowth and the opportunistic attack of candida in the mucous membranes (intestinal and genital are considered results of this syndrome )
    The reason because many people fail with a popular treatment is because they have underlying factors avoiding the necessary immune recuperation to eliminate the infection, and this include the proper candida overgrowth.
    The key is to unload the immune system to break the immune tolerance to the presence of the fungus. It has to be done for enough time to allow the immune system recognize candida as an enemy again.
    The immune system is an army with limited soldiers. This army is able to hold some battles in different parts of the body, but it the attackers are many, there will be a moment where there isn’t more soldiers to defend other parts. This is the moment that an opportunistic pathogen approach.
    For instance, a person who has stress, a diet of sugary and refined carbohydrates, H. Pylori, Herpes Virus, a high level of metal toxicity in the body, hidden parasites, food allergies and environmental allergies, smoke, drink alcohol, etc.
    See how many immune suppressors are affecting that person and all of them add load to the immune system, specially neutralizing the Th1 immune response. In addiction to it, that person develops a fungal overgrowth that also add a big load to the immune system and suppress it. Then, it is almost impossible for that person to end with a fungal overgrowth having such as loaded immune system.
    To revert it, you must unload the immune system including the anticandida treatment and immune support supplements. Over time, there will be a moment where the presence of yeast be very low that the immune system won’t accept it again as it has to be in normal people. The man who dedicated all his life to bring this syndrome to the light of the medical community has said that CRC (Candida Related Complex) is an overtime adquired immune tolerance to candida caused by its ability of colonizing the tissues during a period of time. There is a moment where the immune system stop attacking the fungus and accept it as a normal part of the body. This is the cause of this syndrome. The gut microbiota ecology has a direct competitive effect avoiding tissue colonization by candida. It is part of the tools that defend the intestines of a fungal colonization but it isn’t the main and most important defense against the fungus. Science is trying to determine the direct effects and influence of the gut microbiota in the immune function, but the research is still premature. The fact is it isn’t necessary to have a disrupted intestinal flora to develop this syndrome. People with a “normal” or no affected flora also develop this syndrome if some immune suppressors are present. The growing of candida is proportional to the immune response and not a flora state dependable. You can have a good intestinal flora but a loaded immune system caused by things such as what I mentioned and develop a mucosal fungal overgrowth intestinal and genital.
    This are words of the pioneer MDs who have researched this syndrome.
    The opposite are things you and me find in the web written by who knows trying to experiment with it.
    I hope this help you in your battle.
    Jorge.

    #72250

    Downtown
    Member
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 39

    dvjorge,

    So you are saying that even though diet, exercise, stress, etc. can play a role in fungal overgrowth/candida, that the real culprit is a suppressed immune system? Let’s say that someone who had a severely suppressed immune system found a way to eliminate a large portion of daily stress, exercised often, got plenty of sleep, and ate ‘anti-candida’ foods 90% of the time.
    Do you feel that the body could first heal the immune system, then begin to eliminate candida overgrowth, or has the body already begun not to see the candida as a threat?
    Do you feel that candida must be under control to have a healthy immune system?
    Say someone ate ‘anti-candida’ foods, but was under extreme stress, did no exercise, and other than healthy foods had a weak immune system due to other illnesses or factors. Do you think this person could still fall victim to an overgrowth?

    DT

    #72253

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    Downtown wrote: dvjorge,

    So you are saying that even though diet, exercise, stress, etc. can play a role in fungal overgrowth/candida, that the real culprit is a suppressed immune system? Let’s say that someone who had a severely suppressed immune system found a way to eliminate a large portion of daily stress, exercised often, got plenty of sleep, and ate ‘anti-candida’ foods 90% of the time.
    Do you feel that the body could first heal the immune system, then begin to eliminate candida overgrowth, or has the body already begun not to see the candida as a threat?
    Do you feel that candida must be under control to have a healthy immune system?
    Say someone ate ‘anti-candida’ foods, but was under extreme stress, did no exercise, and other than healthy foods had a weak immune system due to other illnesses or factors. Do you think this person could still fall victim to an overgrowth?

    DT

    What I feel and understand is both things must be addressed to be successful. One time the overgrowth is present, you have to treat it because it, itself, is a big load to the immune system (candida has its own mechanism to cause immune suppression)
    But, if you lower the overgrowth to an acceptable normal level and the causes that allowed it first time are still present, it will go back. This is the famous relapse people speak continually.
    This is the reason because you see hundreds of people trying to find what keep loaded their immune system that don’t allow it to control opportunistic pathogens.
    One of the common load and probably what more influence have in a fungal overgrowth is mercury and other heavy metal toxicity.
    If you don’t address it, when you release the diet and stop the supplements, the overgrowth is back. Who has undergoing proper chelation for 1 or 2 years, clean the immune suppressor, then they can release the diet, etc without a relapse. They have unloaded the immune system to a point that the immunity against candida is restored.
    The immune system can deal with the immune suppression a sugary diet may cause and still control the fungus if other bigger suppressors aren’t present. But , if they are present is too much load and its limited soldiers can not defend the body.

    Jorge.

    #72254

    Downtown
    Member
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 39

    jorge,

    Say that someone fell victim to fungal overgrowth due to a couple strong doses of antibiotics. But other factors such as stress, sleep, etc. were ok.
    Do you feel a person that was strict with the diet, antifungals, then probiotics could reverse this in a short amount of time, or is it still something that takes many months to cure even though this is largest factor waying down the immune system?
    What about steroids? Dont they weaken the immune system? If so, why wouldn’t bodybuilders have a severe overgrowth since they consume tons of ‘anti-candida’ foods: rice, chicken, beef, bread, wheat, fruit, etc.?

    DT

    #72255

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    Downtown wrote: jorge,

    Say that someone fell victim to fungal overgrowth due to a couple strong doses of antibiotics. But other factors such as stress, sleep, etc. were ok.
    Do you feel a person that was strict with the diet, antifungals, then probiotics could reverse this in a short amount of time, or is it still something that takes many months to cure even though this is largest factor waying down the immune system?
    What about steroids? Dont they weaken the immune system? If so, why wouldn’t bodybuilders have a severe overgrowth since they consume tons of ‘anti-candida’ foods: rice, chicken, beef, bread, wheat, fruit, etc.?

    DT

    I can not say about any individual case. Some people recover faster, some take more time, and others have 10 or 15 trying to recover without success. The response is very individual and totally dependable of how serious you follow the treatment, your total immune load, and general health. There isn’t a patron and an standard treatment that always works.

    The food alone doesn’t cause the severe overgrowth. (there are millons living eating fast food, pasta, pizza, soda everyday no affected by candida )
    Remember, the fungus is gaining terrain every time it has a chance. When you take a doses of antibiotic, a little bit, when you are very stressed a little bit, when the diet is very bad, a little bit. There will be a moment over the years that several individual factors or a combination have allowed the fungus to growth to some extend that the immune system don’t attack it. It has been caused by its long presence in high amount. Then, for any reason you take antibiotics and the bomb explodes. Or yo don’t take antibiotics but your immune system has been affected by any other thing. There are genetic problems that cause some people be more susceptible than others too. Nobody can say in your case was that or that other. It is difficult. You have to think about your life and your general health. You have to think what could cause the overgrowth and to try to correct it if possible such as stress, parasites, metal toxicity, lack of HCL, overuse of antibiotics, etc (remember most often is a combination of factors in a long period of time, probably all your life ) The recover also depend how fast you discover the problem and the severity of the infection.
    Anything that weak the immune system must be avoided even cooking with overheated vegetable oils.
    Jorge.

    #72257

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    Haven’t you been over this before with Able? There are more research papers than you could read showing how gut flora directly influences immunity. I read a summary of about 50 of them in relation to allergies yesterday. In a not insignificant sense the quality of your gut flora IS your immunity. I don’t know how you can say it’s inconclusive.

    The other things you mentioned are largely irrelevant to people already on the diet, and would otherwise be important because of the negative effect they have on the intestinal lining and consequently the gut flora. What you mention about acquired immune problems and resolving them can all be explained in terms of gut flora, which can be confirmed by countless scientists’ research from as far back as the 70s.

    For some reason you choose to use your interpretation of some guy’s theories and Internet anecdotes to overcomplicate the issue and downplay the need for probiotics instead of acknowledging the established science, much like with your 12% sugar kefir thread. I don’t know why you consistently feel the need to put a negative spin on everything, especially with such mediocre sources. Motivation is also an important factor in recovery, and you seem to be actively discouraging people.

    #72260

    Lauren
    Member
    Topics: 44
    Replies: 267

    Hi everyone!
    Cat lover, there is a difference between candida and candida albicans. I should start writing the full name to stop confusion, I guess I was just to lazy to type it all out. 😉 Candida is found in the body normally. There is nothing wrong with candida unless it changes to a fungus form, which is called Candida albicans. Candida dysbiosis is when there is a candida albican overgrowth in the digestive tract. Candida sepsis is when it has enter the bloodstream in immune compromised individuals. An example of this occurring would be someone with Aids who immune system is very very weak.

    As for not getting better without medicine I think sometimes this is the case, though extremely rare. The reason I believe this is the Comprehensive Stool Analysis (CSA) test I got done showed that I had a bad bacteria. The lab tested natural bacterial killing supplements and antibiotics on it. Half of the antibiotics would not kill it and none of the natural supplements could kill it at all. It had become resistant to certain things. However, ciproflaxen could. To me this show, even though it not candida albicans, that there are cases where natural remedies will not be enough to heal a problem. Brenda Watson also believes this to be the case. Again this is only with very few people with problems to this extent. This is why I am trying to find doctor that knows a lot about candida overgrowth because they can tell you if medicine is needed along with everything that is stated on this website. Just to be clear medicine can not fix the problems without also taking the other steps outline on here (like diet, antifungals, and probiotics).

    I also feel that if there is underline problems beside candida, it will be harder to cured. For example if there are parasites or metal overload in the body the immune system will be unable to fight of candida like it should. To me it is important to think about why you got in the situation to begin with. This way you can find underline problems. These are just my opinions based on my experiences and what I have read. They might be totally wrong.
    Thanks
    Lauren

    #72264

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    Javizy wrote: Haven’t you been over this before with Able? There are more research papers than you could read showing how gut flora directly influences immunity. I read a summary of about 50 of them in relation to allergies yesterday. In a not insignificant sense the quality of your gut flora IS your immunity. I don’t know how you can say it’s inconclusive.

    The other things you mentioned are largely irrelevant to people already on the diet, and would otherwise be important because of the negative effect they have on the intestinal lining and consequently the gut flora. What you mention about acquired immune problems and resolving them can all be explained in terms of gut flora, which can be confirmed by countless scientists’ research from as far back as the 70s.

    For some reason you choose to use your interpretation of some guy’s theories and Internet anecdotes to overcomplicate the issue and downplay the need for probiotics instead of acknowledging the established science, much like with your 12% sugar kefir thread. I don’t know why you consistently feel the need to put a negative spin on everything, especially with such mediocre sources. Motivation is also an important factor in recovery, and you seem to be actively discouraging people.

    Able is nothing but a simple sufferer that began this battle only a few months ago who claim to be cured but still follow an anticandida diet. To prove about a cure you have to have better arguments. To control the symptoms with a diet doesn’t mean a cure. When you can live a life like most people do eating bread, pizza, ice cream, desserts, drinking, eating fruits, in fact, what they want, then you can say you are cured. You can do it for 3 months to know if you really are cured, then, later follow the diet you like. I can not say I am cured until I be an slave of any kind of diet.
    What do you think I don’t know anything about Probiotics ??
    Don’t make me laugh ! My first year researching this syndrome was spent reading, studing, and taking probiotics. VSL3, Total Immune Booster, CP1, Dr. Ohhira, Ultimate Flora, Culturella, L. Reuteri, V299, PB 8, IFlora, and more.

    I have done several Fecal Transplants using my daughter feces to be sure I have human indigenous bacterial species. I have paid 4 CDSA to Genoval Lab to see what my intestinal flora shows. During 2009, there wasn’t a single day where I didn’t take 4 teaspoon of Inulin, home made Kefir, Cabbage Rejuvelac, and every single thing to recover the flora.

    I didn’t know that the information coming from Dr. Truss who discovered this syndrome is a mediocre source.
    What do you think that after the amount of hours I have spent reading in forums about candida knowing people experiences, testimonies, different treatments, I have to believe a diet with oregano oil and garlic cure this syndrome ??
    How many success stories you find of people cured following a web invented protocol ??
    Get out of this forum and join Curezone Forum, Candida Support Forum, Candida Yahoo Group, The Whole Approach Forum, you will have a chance of speaking with people that have 5, 8 or 10 years battling candida. Are they stupid ?? Are they unable to realize a diet with natural supplements cure this syndrome ?? Don’t they want to be cured ??

    Instead of discouraging people, I am encouraging them to do the right things to be close to the success some day.
    I don’t have any reason to lye when I know for most people the things are deeper and
    more complicated than a diet and some supplements.
    I am encouraging people to find the root cause of this problem and to correct it when possible. I don’t tell anybody that don’t follow the diet or do anything that can aggravate this problem. Have you seen me to do that ??

    I wish you luck with your probiotics and your trusted sources.

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