IMPOSSIBLE: Huge cysteine problems/methylation questions

Home The Candida Forum Candida Questions IMPOSSIBLE: Huge cysteine problems/methylation questions

This topic contains 8 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  approximately_me 5 years, 5 months ago.

Viewing 9 posts - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #113123

    approximately_me
    Member
    Topics: 28
    Replies: 186

    Hi Impossible,

    I’m looking for a little advice. We talked a few weeks ago about mercury and methylation (I was incorrect at the time saying I had an amalgam–I don’t). At the time I was having extreme thiol reactions; this hasn’t improved. However, I said I also wasn’t reacting to cysteine. I don’t think that’s true. I think I have a very serious cysteine problem (though I don’t really know how to diagnose this definitively).

    There aren’t many foods left I can eat, and they aren’t the best as far as nutrition goes. I’m still following Able’s strict diet, also a thiol free diet and now I’m cutting meat and milk kefir because of cysteine. I also think I have to cut oat bran. I think even coconut oil might have too much sulfur. This leaves green peppers, avocado, zuchini, romaine, cucumber, celery, lemons. I honestly can’t think of anything else to eat.

    I need to get my cysteine down and my thiol intolerance down quickly. The folks at the Cutler Chelation group suggested glutamine and glycine at a 2:1 ratio to bring down cysteine through the formation of glutathione. I added in the glutamine (the glycine I ordered, isn’t yet arrived). I felt amazing for two days. Best I’ve felt since my candida die-off stopped. My kidney pain that I’d been having since my first round of chelation stopped. But then glutamine began causing with the exact same symptoms as my thiol/chelation symptoms (extreme mental confusion, a swirling off-balance kind of reality). So I stopped a day and a half later when I realized what was happening.

    It was then suggested I try GABA to help convert excess glutamate. This made my super wired–like I’d taken a bowlful of cocaine or some crazy drug. I was unbelievably agitated and anxious, pacing the room. Hardly the calm reaction you’re supposed to get from GABA. I came down after about 4 or 5 hours I think.

    As we talked about earlier, I believe my thiol/cysteine symptoms started this August, when after my die-off stopped, I also stopped taking high doses of ALA and NAC (ALA: 250mg 3x day, NAC: 500mg 3x day). My thinking is that those two kept my glutathione high enough to counter the loads of cysteine and thiol I was putting in my body through the candida diet and those same supplements. So when I stopped taking them, and the glutathione I had left began expending itself, releasing all that cysteine.

    A woman on my chelation thread with a very similar story to mine, here, said the problem might be a conversion problem between glutamine and glutathione:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/frequent-dose-chelation/conversations/topics/120230

    My problems seem to be getting worse every day. My neuro problems are unbelievable right now. My kidney pain is much improved, but I still get chest pain around my heart–a needle type feeling, usually when I’m reacting to something.

    As we also talked about, i’ve been looking into methylation. My 23andme arrived yesterday. However, in the last week they’ve stopped giving health analysis with the package. So before I register it, I need to confirm that they’ll still provide the genetic data I need.

    According to this methylation site, my glutamate imbalance might indicate a CBS issue (as well as a mercury. It also suggest that glutamate reacts with mercury:
    http://www.heartfixer.com/AMRI-Nutrigenomics.htm#Glutamate – GABA Imbalance Þ Excitotoxicity

    So I thought also, I might, while I’m waiting for genetic results, begin addressing the problem as if I already know I have a CBS issue. Also, it seems BHMT issues go hand-in-hand. So maybe that too? What do you think?

    As I said, I’m cutting out meat and milk kefir today. I thought I’d try adding in glycine when it arrives. Slowly. See how that goes. Then try the glutamine REALLY slowly.

    I also noticed that trimethylglycine is indicated for BHMT, might it be worth trying this instead of regular glycine? Or too risky…

    Any insight you might offer would be very much appreciated.

    Cheers.

    Sasha

    #113125

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    The big problem with mercury toxicity is that it hampers enzyme reactions. Your body requires enzymes to detoxify anything that comes into it as well as catalyze all the reactions that create all the substances that your body requires for the million things it does.

    The first thing you need to do is relax. You can get through this and you can find ways to deal with it until you do. Theres no sense in worrying about something you cant do something about and theres no sense in worrying about something you can do something about. So just relax. A clear head helps alot too.

    The second thing you need to do is realize that there are alot of things that you could be sensitive to because your body might have a hard time processing them. This might be what you are experiencing. All the normal rules dont apply anymore, there could be holdups anywhere in your body. Take your methylation snp’s and any other info you derive from that into account, but understand that those are indicators of inhibited enzyme activity and you might be dealing with more than just those now. I would think your probably dealing with the worst of it as the dust is still settling and your body hasnt had much of a chance to clean itself up yet, and you might experience new symptoms as it does.

    There are alot of chemical groups that people with liver/heavy metal problems are sensitive/intolerant to, beyond just thiols. Keep your head as clear as you can and start learning as much as you can about all of those and what they look like. Take it easy with supplements, particularly ones you havent tried before. When you add something new in, start with a fraction of a normal dose and see how it goes.

    Start a diary and write down everything you consume or are exposed too, places you went, etc as well as your symptoms experienced and reactions to things. Document what has happened so far. This can help alot with identifying problematic foods/ chemicals and could also help a specialist treat you if it comes to that. Which brings me to my last point. This can very difficult to work through without a thorough understanding of bio chem and physiology. The only doctor that comes to mind that I would consider going to in a pinch like this is Sherry Rogers. People travel from all over to see her for a reason. It would be a good idea to consider consulting with her or someone that she would recommend.

    There are a couple of tests that can help you pinpoint problems and those are Urine Amino Acids and Urine Organic Acids. They are kinda pricey and im not sure that insurance covers those though.

    Do you have an account at curezone? Start one and contact me so we can pm each other, my name is the same there.

    Are all of your symptoms now neurological? What exact symptoms are you experiencing, how are they occurring, what exactly made them better or worse? What are the food reactions like or is it just constant symptoms?Aside from the kidney pain, has it been just brain fog and anxiety? If thats the case it could just be a sulfur & glutamate thing.

    #113126

    approximately_me
    Member
    Topics: 28
    Replies: 186

    Thanks, Impossible.

    My main symptoms are neurological. They’re not quite the same as what I experienced with candida, but it’s not totally different either. It includes mental confusion, a sort of swirling experience. I feel slightly off-balance as though the world has a slight wobble to it. I also get very agitated and anxious. At first it seemed only in reaction to certain foods, which I identified as thiol. But that didn’t get rid of it. In truth, my baseline condition has progressively worsened (which is why I was thinking cysteine). I don’t experience it all the time, it ebbs and flows, but the times when I don’t feel it at all almost never happen anymore and the times when I feel it less than others is becoming less frequent. It usually becomes more intense in the 1/2 hour before a BM. I also get some chest pain around my heart and sometimes a touch in my arm, though these are reduced since trying glutamine. Palpitations are pretty common too.

    My reaction to everything is exactly the same.

    The food, aside from the thiols, is harder to discern. This morning I reacted to oat bran and coconut oil. I haven’t managed to pinpoint a reaction to meat exactly. I often feel worse for a few hours after, but it’s difficult to mark. It’s not as marked as the thiols were. I react to water kefir and maybe milk kefir, possibly kombucha too.

    My digestion has slowed (possibly because of reduced ferments), but still moves. It’s kind of greasy (sorry). Swedish bitters help to keep it going.

    Glutamine made them better and then worse. I reacted intensely to one round of ALA, which caused my kidney and heart pains. I also reacted really badly to NAC. Both of these I took before without problem. At first with the ALA, I believe I felt better, but after a few doses I began to feel worse. I don’t necessarily know if this indicates a metal problem or just a sulfur one.

    I should say I’m not certain about heavy metals. I have a hair test ordered, but haven’t had it.

    I’ll open a curezone account later tonight.

    Where is a good place to learn about the other things metals react with? I’m parsing the mercury group and looking around the web, but I’m kind of pawing at things blindly, not knowing what I’m looking for, hoping I’ll recognize it when I see it.

    #113128

    approximately_me
    Member
    Topics: 28
    Replies: 186

    Is there a test my doctor can take to read cysteine levels or anything else that would help me diagnosing?

    #113129

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    approximately_me;51649 wrote: Is there a test my doctor can take to read cysteine levels or anything else that would help me diagnosing?

    A UAA test would indicate higher or lower levels of certain amino acids which can indicate many things. Doctors Data’s website has good info on the test. A urine heavy metals would also give you a better idea of whats going on with you right now. The hair test in a situation like this would probably be best done with pubic hair as it is fast growing and would give a more current result.

    One must discern the basis of their reactions, physiological and/or immune, and you seem to be possibly having both. Chest and kidney pain are common symptoms of acute mercury toxicity and its no surprise that those cleaned up with a glutathione protocol. It sounds like certain symptoms improved when you stopped redistributing and others were helped when you cleared some of it out, but certain symptoms stuck around or got worse. One could view this as those were the symptoms of thiol intolerance (due to redistribution) and acute mercury toxicity, the rest could now be something else, possibly indirectly caused by mercury toxicty or whatever. That could be alot of things. Mercury can cause problems with the physiology and can really screw up the immune system.

    The fact that certain symptoms are happening with every type of food and is worst before a bowel movement looks more like those are immune based. This test is the best at determining if foods are causing inflammatory reactions. http://nowleap.com/mediator-release-testing/the-patented-mediator-release-test-mrt/

    But this is all a guess, its hard to judge over the internet and without test results. The best thing to do would be establish a solid baseline, be it good or bad (preferably good, of course) as long as its not being influenced by your current consumption and work from there. I’ve gone a whole day without eating when things were tough and I was trying to figure out what the hell was going on. Try foods one at a time and see what happens. See if you can find any that dont cause a reaction. If you tried just 2 bites of oatmeal and coconut oil tmrw morning and the reaction was the same or worse in intensity as a whole meal, then it would strongly look immune based. If you ate foods that you havent had in months and have a low chance of cross reaction with anything your eating now and they dont cause a reaction, that too would strongly indicate the symptoms are immune based. If a pattern of eating something one day is fine, but subsequent consumption causes progressively worse reactions, then i would almost certainly say its immune based.

    If its a physiological or digestive intolerance, then it is generally going to be more consistent and dose dependent, you will find that it happens in groups and some foods you would never react to. With all the different enzymes that could be potentially disrupted by mercury, I would imagine that this could happen with alot of different food chemical groups or amino acids and could be hard to determine without testing.

    If you cant tolerate actively detoxing, then you might want to think about doing whatever you can to passively detox. A good place to start would be bentonite or charcoal. Neither of these leave the intestine, they have a low chance of causing inflammation, and generally dont really react with the body at all. They just sit there and absorb. Just make sure to use them away from food and drink plenty of water if you do decide to use them.

    You need a source of protein, if you can find one that doesnt make things worse, that would be good. Even if its just the necessary individual amino acids. Those also shouldnt draw an immune based reaction at all.

    I will do some studying as far as your reactions to glutamine and gaba, but i can tell you that might be a tough nut to crack. I would recommend asking the folks at phoenixrising if they have any ideas or similiar experiences there. Just explain that youve had problems since stopping a high dose ala supplement, then list out the symptoms youve had that you know have been influenced/changed by sulfur containing foods and any supplements that have affected those symptoms directly and any others that have had their own known dramatic reactions. You could also explain your other symptoms with a sidenote that you’re not sure of the source of them. The more clear and concise, the better the responses you’ll get. I’ll help you with it if you would like.

    #113133

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    I also would like to add that when there is more than one thing going on, it can be easy to attribute symptoms to the wrong cause and/or mistake them for something they are not. I’ve even done this alot. It has taken me a long time to figure out exactly what my symptoms are and what causes them. I have been an utter mess for a long time, I developed a hypersensitive immune system after a tetanus shot 15 years ago and apparently have had trouble detoxing my entire life due to methylation insufficiency. It takes a very systematic and scientific approach to figure what is happening. That is why I stressed establishing a stable baseline and a safe condition that you are comfortable in then trying things one at a time to see how you react. Without spending the dough on tests and seeing a prodigy doctor this is the safest and best way to go about it. The worst thing you can do is assume whats happening and/or throw supplements at it. If you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that something caused an adverse reaction, stay away from it and also stay away from anything that can mobilize more heavy metals. The most important thing right now is to prevent things from getting worse.

    #113138

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606
    #113139

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606
    #113142

    approximately_me
    Member
    Topics: 28
    Replies: 186

    Thanks impossible. I will message you at curezone. I already had an account, I’d forgotten about.

Viewing 9 posts - 1 through 9 (of 9 total)

The topic ‘IMPOSSIBLE: Huge cysteine problems/methylation questions’ is closed to new replies.