How to choose the least of multiple evils?

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This topic contains 11 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Javizy 7 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #73818

    Himawari
    Member
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 65

    This thread is for those of us who’ve been on the diet for months and experience little to no symptoms.

    Backstory: I’ve been on the diet since October, and have had almost all of my symptoms clear up (following some small bumps in the road around January). I plan on continuing the diet for a while longer, but want to be a little more flexible in my eating. Specifically, I want to be able to eat at a restaurant every once in a while, or at least be able to grab a snack while out-and-about and not have to cut my outings short and return home simply because I didn’t pack a lunch (or packed it, and then left in on the kitchen counter…)

    Question: What is the best way to go about choosing what foods to eat when eating out?

    Clarification: I know Able has mentioned that after a certain point, you can start testing foods and “have a bite of that wedding cake.” I don’t think I’m quite at that point yet, however. But when I’m handed a menu, how do I go about ordering the most diet-conforming food on it, when virtually everything contains no-no ingredients?

    Passing up on dessert/drinks is obvious, and ordering a plain salad is a good route to take. But for the main course, should I go with the soba (usually made of wheat with some buckwheat, in a soy sauce and rice wine broth), or with the grilled fish (covered in soy sauce and sprinkled with table salt)? Maybe some sushi (raw fish over white rice)? How about soy-based products like tofu? If it’s just going to be one meal anyway, should I splurge and go for a curry dinner? My one reservation is that I would like to stay away from eggs if possible, since I’ve had bad experiences with non-organic eggs in the past.

    Any suggestions? I’m particularly interested in how bad a splurge sushi (white rice + soy sauce) would be compared with soba (wheat + soy sauce + rice wine), since I think they’re probably the safest choices available to me. As much as I’d love to just dive head-first into a veggie-lover’s pizza…

    #73823

    wishnhope
    Member
    Topics: 4
    Replies: 80

    hmm.. sashimi?

    I like this question. Would love to know how people at a further stage along incorporate socializing and eating into their routine. 🙂

    #73827

    Able900
    Spectator
    Topics: 92
    Replies: 4811

    I know Able has mentioned that after a certain point, you can start testing foods and “have a bite of that wedding cake.” I don’t think I’m quite at that point yet, however.

    You’re right, being on the treatment for just four months doesn’t qualify anyone for a go-to-cake free card, not by a long shot. In fact, I probably shouldn’t have posted that at all since it was intended for much, much further down the road at the point where the Candida infestation is believed to be completely cured. Plus, if I remember correctly, I wanted to give the guy his wedding cake as a goal to work toward during his treatment, since it seemed to be so important to him at the time.

    Passing up on dessert/drinks is obvious..

    Right.

    should I go with the soba (usually made of wheat with some buckwheat, in a soy sauce and rice wine broth), or with the grilled fish (covered in soy sauce and sprinkled with table salt)? Maybe some sushi (raw fish over white rice)? How about soy-based products like tofu? If it’s just going to be one meal anyway, should I splurge and go for a curry dinner?

    “Soy sauce and rice wine broth” is definitely out. Choosing white rice, no matter what the dish is, is practically the same as choosing a baked potato. Tofu, if it’s the ‘real deal’ and not what we receive here in America, may be worth a test; remember if it’s your first attempt, you should have only a minimal amount. And keep in mind that the table salt they use, if not sea salt, may contain Dextrose.

    The best food to sick with is a one-ingredient dish when it comes to vegetables, otherwise, you have no idea what was used in the recipe (casseroles, etc.). And if there’s no other ‘safe’ choice for your main course, you can always go with any type of dried beans if they’re available or even a simple baked chicken breast would work – as long as you check to see if other ingredients were placed in the recipe.
    If it’s an upscale restaurant, you can send a message to the chef with the explanation that you have allergies and can only eat certain foods, you may be surprised at what some restaurants are willing to do in order to please their customers (thanks, Luce).

    My one reservation is that I would like to stay away from eggs if possible, since I’ve had bad experiences with non-organic eggs in the past.

    Actually, in most cases, maybe not in yours, if you’re far enough along on the treatment, a regular egg (one) is far from the worst choice you could make. If it’s just a plain egg, at least there’s nothing there that’s going to feed the Candida as opposed to most foods you get in restaurants. For example, one boiled egg sliced over a large salad isn’t that bad.

    Sashimi? As a test food, yes. I think I’d stay away from the sauces however, maybe a lime or lemon squeezed over the dish.

    My opinion about wheat is biased I’m afraid; this I put in the same category as corn and sugar as being something that no one, Candida being present or not, needs in their diet. There are dozens of negative possibilities attached to these without one single positive.

    We’ve all heard of essential amino acids and essential fatty acids, and even essential vitamins and minerals that the human body can’t live without. But have you ever heard of “essential carbohydrates”? Of course not, that’s because there’s no such thing.

    Did you know that carbohydrates can be made in your body? They’re made out of fat and protein. So as long as you eat fat and protein, you’re going to have carbohydrates in your body.

    A lot of people will argue that we need the carbs from such foods as wheat in order to produce the needed glucose, but glucose is also produced naturally in the body from amino acids if we’re not eating a carb rich food source.
    I often wonder how these people who argue in favor of eating a carbohydrate diet think that the Eskimos of years ago survived for century after century when the only food source they ever had was meat protein, i.e. fish, walrus, polar bear, etc. I have no doubt that they were healthier as a whole than the average American is today. That’s because the human body is able to supple the essential nutrients if given the correct, “healthy” tools. (No, I’m not advocating an all-meat diet by any means). Sheesh, it’s amazing at how we have to cover ourselves when posting factual information.

    It’s a well documented fact that wheat can and does damage the lining of the intestines. Here on the forum we know this better by another name, leaky gut syndrome.

    I seemed to have gotten off the subject again, sorry about that, Himawari.
    Able

    #73829

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    I’d expect at least a teaspoon of sugar on the fish along with the soy sauce and table salt. Every Japanese recipe I’ve seen uses white sugar for some reason. Maybe you could tell the waiter you’re diabetic and to hold the sugar. I wonder if anywhere serves juuwari-soba… Chinese restaurants will be even worse, but I wonder if Korean would be okay. Obviously requires tolerance to chilli, but there are side-dishes like kimchi and other fermented veg and crab or tofu soups as main. Maybe a moderate amount of yakiniku if meat doesn’t trouble you? I’ve never seen any Korean recipes, so I’m not sure what they’re based on, but the dishes I’ve tried didn’t seem at all sweet or suspicious in that regard. Otherwise, a good Indian place should have something (again chilli will be added) you can eat. A chickpea masala or some sort of dhal, for example. You’d want to test things like tofu, lentils, tomato etc in advance though.

    #73834

    Chlofloso
    Member
    Topics: 28
    Replies: 104

    I agree with you, Able, that carbohydrates are absolutely not essential in the human body. But the one question I still have is: If you eat no carbohydrates, your protein intake necessarily rises. As you mentioned, this can damage the liver and kidneys etc. on the long term. So, how come the inuits were so healthy and didn’t get any negative effects from the high amount of protein? Or do you think that fish protein is different than meat and egg protein? I’m planning to maintain a low carbohydrate diet for a long time, but I’m still a bit concerned with that.

    By the way, how many grams of carbohydrate a day would you consider is a low carbohydrate diet? (I weigh 51 kg = 112 lbs.)

    #73844

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    Chlofloso wrote: So, how come the inuits were so healthy and didn’t get any negative effects from the high amount of protein? Or do you think that fish protein is different than meat and egg protein?

    They did get diseases, just not the so-called Western diseases – diabetes, heart disease etc – that us carb-fiends die from in the millions every year. I’m not so sure about protein, but processing triglycerides (fat) for energy is taxing on the liver and kidneys, and it’s diseases of these organs the Inuit suffered from. While carbs may not be necessary for survival, I think they’re necessary, in their most natural form (unprocessed wholegrains, legumes, vegetables, fruit etc) to some degree for optimal health.

    You don’t need to worry though. I’ve seen studies that showed the health of Atkins dieters improved over the course of a year, and that diet is ridiculous. The emphasis on vegetables in this diet means you’ll be getting regular carbs anyway, especially if you’re including buckwheat, oat bran, coconut, Granny Smiths etc. The other components in these foods (vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, phytochemicals etc), few of which Atkins dieters consume, help your liver and body in general function better too, so you’re at even more of any advantage to those steak and cheese gorging buffoons, and you may not even need the 12-months the study group was tracked for (this isn’t a life sentence).

    At some point you’ll be able to think about optimum nutrition (and hopefully will instead of returning to bad habits), but right now you need to be thinking anti-candida nutrition, because candida is taxing your body much more than copious amounts of fish and eggs will ever do. So stay focused and enjoy your boiled eggs and salmon salads 🙂

    Edit: I just came across an interesting article that might offer some insight on the optimum nutrition question (click the quote).

    Science Daily wrote: “Both low-carb and high-carb diets are wrong,” says Johansen. “But a low-carb diet is closer to the right diet. A healthy diet shouldn’t be made up of more than one-third carbohydrates (up to 40 per cent of calories) in each meal, otherwise we stimulate our genes to initiate the activity that creates inflammation in the body.”

    #73868

    Himawari
    Member
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 65

    Javizy wrote: I’d expect at least a teaspoon of sugar on the fish along with the soy sauce and table salt. Every Japanese recipe I’ve seen uses white sugar for some reason. Maybe you could tell the waiter you’re diabetic and to hold the sugar. I wonder if anywhere serves juuwari-soba… Chinese restaurants will be even worse, but I wonder if Korean would be okay. Obviously requires tolerance to chilli, but there are side-dishes like kimchi and other fermented veg and crab or tofu soups as main. Maybe a moderate amount of yakiniku if meat doesn’t trouble you? I’ve never seen any Korean recipes, so I’m not sure what they’re based on, but the dishes I’ve tried didn’t seem at all sweet or suspicious in that regard. Otherwise, a good Indian place should have something (again chilli will be added) you can eat. A chickpea masala or some sort of dhal, for example. You’d want to test things like tofu, lentils, tomato etc in advance though.

    The sugar factor is something I’m worried about. The Japanese prefer their food sweet, not spicy, so they add sugar to everything. Sweet kimchi, sweet curry, sweet meats… I had forgotten about sugar with fish, but now that I think about it, yeah, they do that too. I’d go with yakiniku since it’s basically a do-it-yourself meal where skipping the sauces and other extra ingredients would be fairly easy. Only thing is, I’ve been trying to stay away from beef (and what else do I eat with it if rice is out, and most available veggies are in pickle form?) Unfortunately I think almost all the Korean/Indian/etc. restaurants in Japan are geared toward the Japanese and add sugar to everything, but I suppose speaking to the staff is worth a shot. Chickpeas/lentils are a good suggestion, though.

    #73872

    Himawari
    Member
    Topics: 6
    Replies: 65

    Tofu, if it’s the ‘real deal’ and not what we receive here in America, may be worth a test

    What do you mean by “the real deal,” exactly? Tofu is obviously pretty indigenous here, but that doesn’t mean it hasn’t been westernized.

    Also, I’ve actually been eating sashimi (no sauces, just the raw fish/squid/etc.) under the impression that it was acceptable.

    How bad would pickled vegetables be? I know vinegar is a no-no… Or how about kimchi that’s guaranteed to contain apples, grape juice, and sugar?

    The chicken breast is a good suggestion, although it would require a special order from a nice, sit-down restaurant. What I’m looking for is food that I can just grab and eat and will only set me back by a few days, vs. a few weeks. In other words, if I find myself stranded in a tiny town in the middle of nowhere and my only choice is a McDonald’s, should I go with the chicken nuggets and pull off the breading, or a burger and just eat the patty, lettuce, and onion? Or should I scout out some generic, non-organic yogurt with no sugar added? Cross my fingers and pray I can find a fruit stand that sells green apples?

    I know people have cheated pretty badly before (a night out here, a vacation there, caving into temptation there) and haven’t been set back too bad… I’m just trying to collect info on how to minimize the damage in case this type of situation were to arise.

    #73885

    Able900
    Spectator
    Topics: 92
    Replies: 4811

    What do you mean by “the real deal,” exactly? Tofu is obviously pretty indigenous here, but that doesn’t mean it hasn’t been westernized.

    I imagine that most any soy product produced in your country would be authentic; however, there are doubts and questions as to the fermentation process of some American made soy products.

    How bad would pickled vegetables be? I know vinegar is a no-no… Or how about kimchi that’s guaranteed to contain apples, grape juice, and sugar?

    Vegetables pickled in distilled white vinegar could possibly cause Candida reactions in some people. As far as apples, grape juice, and sugar all eaten at one time goes, the degree of damage would no doubt depend on the degree of your infestation at that time. In other words, none of us can say for certain, but I’m sure it wouldn’t be a benefit to you.

    The chicken breast is a good suggestion, although it would require a special order from a nice, sit-down restaurant. What I’m looking for is food that I can just grab and eat and will only set me back by a few days, vs. a few weeks. In other words, if I find myself stranded in a tiny town in the middle of nowhere and my only choice is a McDonald’s, should I go with the chicken nuggets and pull off the breading, or a burger and just eat the patty, lettuce, and onion? Or should I scout out some generic, non-organic yogurt with no sugar added? Cross my fingers and pray I can find a fruit stand that sells green apples?

    A Granny Smith apple would be a good choice; otherwise, fresh vegetables would be my choice. I have no idea what a McDonalds menu looks like, but I’ve heard enough about how their foods last forever without the food decaying, and I don’t think I’d want those chemicals in my body.

    Able

    #73889

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    I would eat fruit over soy products myself if you want to venture into a new world of good “normal” foods.

    Soy products should be placed in a similar category as vinegar, which isn’t too far away from alcohol.

    If you want to go out and eat once a month go ahead, but I didn’t eat any chinese food (closest thing I have eaten to japanese food) until 6 months into the diet, and that was just one time. It set me back about a week and not a few days, it was definitely a bad choice.

    Even worse than the sugar in the foods is the large amounts of white salt…I couldn’t believe how salty the chinese food I ate was. I am unsure how salty japanese foods are, but if its even in the same ballpark, I would wait until the 6 month mark to test it out.

    Also, when you eat out, I feel its best to save it for special occasions.

    -raster

    #74153

    Chlofloso
    Member
    Topics: 28
    Replies: 104

    Hi Javizy,
    I somehow forgot to check back on this thread. Thank you for the answer and the link to the article. Really interesting, especially because I do have this “metabolic inflammation” they mention due to my CFS. Thanks!

    Chloë

    #74154

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    Chlofloso wrote: Hi Javizy,
    I somehow forgot to check back on this thread. Thank you for the answer and the link to the article. Really interesting, especially because I do have this “metabolic inflammation” they mention due to my CFS. Thanks!

    Chloë

    No problem. There’s a lot of good stuff on Science Daily if you search for things like ‘probiotic’, ‘sugar’, ‘carbohydrate’ etc. It’s quite motivating to learn all the good things probitics and good foods can do for you, and makes it slightly easier to part with the money it costs to buy them!

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