help with severe die off!

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This topic contains 9 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  MsMollyJackson 6 years, 9 months ago.

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  • #90273

    TP
    Member
    Topics: 1
    Replies: 2

    Hi Forum,

    I’ve been reading the forum for several months, am posting because I am struggling with my candida infestation, and I was hoping for some help. Basically, I’m desperate, in bad shape, and I don’t know if this is die- off, or if it’s another condition. I am in such bad shape (brain fog and anxiety) that I am having trouble even typing this out.

    Some background. Things first went bad 12 years ago after a heavy course of antibiotics (Cipro and then Bactrim) for what doctors thought was a prostate infection. With the antibiotics, I got sicker and sicker, pain in lower left and right abdomen (Colon) as well as prostate area, stools yellow and extreme fatigue and anxiety. The next 6 years was a spiral of poor health. Went to many doctors, most put me on more antibiotics, became lactose intolerant, constantly anxious, low body temp (about 96.5).

    Finally (2006) found a doctor willing to treat for candida, and he put me on Diflucan plus probiotics and supplements. Got sicker of course, lost 30lbs, weakness, brain fog, anxiety. After about a year I started to feel a little better. I had modified my diet some back then but doctor said it was okay to resume eating carbs. (I know, Stupid!) But at the time I didn’t have a good understanding of this condition.

    Needless to say, things got bad and last year I went back to Dr., had the antigen test; IgG =33, IgA =20, IgM =10, Immune complex =2.4. He put me back on Diflucan and things went south with die off (my biggest issue is brain fog and oppressive anxiety). Unfortunately I only found this website 2.5 months ago, and finally made some dietary changes and learned of the molybdenum and pantethine. I have been on the strict diet (zero carbs) for about 2 months, probiotics, and much of the other supplements on the protocol.

    The past week has been horrible. I am so sick I can hardly get out of bed. My vision is so blurry I need glasses to even see the computer. I can’t sleep. White tongue. I couldn’t even go outside to walk the dogs today because the sunlight hurt my eyes so badly. The level of anxiety and brain fog I am feeling is so oppressive and unrelenting that I don’t know what to do. I stopped anti-fungals 2 days ago as well as probiotics, but conditions have not improved. Which leads to my questions:

    Has anyone else experienced this level of die-off? Or could I be dealing with some other condition?

    Also, is it okay that I have been on molybdenum for a while now, is this safe? I have been drinking a cup of nettle tea each day.

    I’m also afraid (assuming this monster is in fact candida) that I will lose ground by stopping the antifungals. (Dr. wants to put me on Sporanox, btw. No way am I in any condition!)

    Last question; die-off seems to be worse during and after a BM. Is this due more to yeast toxicity, or materials (undigested proteins) leaching into my bloodstream. Obviously I have leaky gut too.

    I know this is a lot. And believe me, I hate that I even have to impose on you guys. But if anyone has any thoughts or insights, I’d be enormously appreciative. Maybe if I knew for sure that this was going to eventually end, I’d have a little more confidence, and maybe be able to sleep some night soon.

    All that said, there are a few things that seem to be positive. For one, stools have become more formed and are no longer yellow. Not normal yet, but seeming to be getting closer. (sorry about the stool talk) Also, the inflammation in my lower gut seems to have lessened quite a bit. Still there a little, but no longer does it feel like ground glass is passing through my lower intestine. And lastly, the other bit of positive news is that I am not dead!

    Thank you again for taking the time to read this. I appreciate all of the hard work and effort put forth by so many here. Thank you, thank you, thank you! Peace.

    #90282

    Thomas
    Member
    Topics: 71
    Replies: 605

    Hi mate,
    I read your story and hear your suffering mate! If you read my early posts you will find a suffering brother in me. I had the same type of questions so your questions are alright.

    I would not jump to hasty conclusions. Keep a cool head and do serious check ups and resurge. I know its hard but I did it that way because I didnt improve on the diet and everything went downhill. My main suffering was brainfog, anexity, panic attacks, and several other sympthoms. I felt like being seasick all the time.

    What did I do to feel better. First I had my MD check me for everything possible. After he said you have nothing, I at least knew that I didnt have cancer or something else. Then I questioned if its really candida. You cant simply assume that you have Candida because of the sympthoms. SIBO has the same list of sympthoms.

    I read a book about IBS and changed my diet from high fiber to low fiber. And noticed that my brainfog said good bye too me after only 2 days. I continued to feel better and was eating low fibre for a week or two to check and noticed that my diarre stopped. If you have much problems with the stomach it is possible that you suffer from malnutrition and lack of Vitamin B12. The lack of magnesium, B12 and malnutrition can mess up your nerves. Get a B12 spray for the nose as the intestines cant manage the pills.

    Now I bought a amazing book with tons of knowleadge and will start to follow her diet.

    http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/

    all the best
    Thomas

    #90301

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    Hello TP,

    It sounds like you could have more than one thing going on than just candida and I would consider getting tested for things that are similar to candida overgrowth; a few examples include histamines, h. pylori, e.coli, parasites, and sibo (small intestinal bacteria overgrowth). Additionally, I would consider getting your liver enzyme levels tested to see if they are elevated. If you are eating late dinners, this can cause liver stress by itself.

    Second, I would consider contacting a naturopath who can heal you holistically (multiple organs all at once) whereas the doctor you are seeing is just giving you a pill.

    You may need more stuff than molybdenum to protect the liver and kidneys from toxins; milk thistle is a great example as well as juniper berry extract and artichoke extract. There are also a variety of homeopathics that can heal the liver and a naturopath would know about them. Nystatin and pharmaceutical drugs can cause adverse problems such as liver damage and thats why we promote natural antifungals because there is less risk.

    The strange thing about what you mentioned is that you experience more die-off during a BM. I haven’t heard of this happening to anyone else on the forum before and this could be related to a complication we don’t know about on the forum.

    The pain you mentioned during a BM could simply be hemorrhoids which is caused by constipation and a poor lifestyle.

    Also, if you are not doing the strict forum diet and eating things like corn, rice, potatoes, etc. these all can feed the candida and cause allergies. Allergic reactions are very similar to die-off symptoms but may be elevated during a die-off period.

    The nettle tea is antifungal btw so it alone can cause die-off in conjunction with the diet.

    I wish I could help you but there are so many factors to consider that its difficult to pinpoint what your troubles are.

    -raster

    #90310

    TP
    Member
    Topics: 1
    Replies: 2

    Wow…thanks Thomas and raster! I really appreciate all the valuable intel and words of encouragement. You guys have certainly given me a lot to think about. I bought the book, Thomas, read the reviews and it looks pretty good. If nothing else it will provide me with some potential recipes moving forward. SIBO is something I never considered, but I will punch in a Google search when I am done here and have a look. I know for certain that I have candida because I had an endoscopy in 2006 and the found it growing all over my esophagus and stomach. I have the pictures to prove it! They found inflammation throughout my digestives system and a MRI revealed that my liver and spleen were swollen. At the time the doctor I was seeing told me not to worry, that it was minor, take 2-3 Metamucil tabs a day and it will be better in 2 weeks (I kid you not, that’s a direct quote!).

    Over the years I have been checked for just about everything—Cancer, HIV, food allergies—I even had the Metametrix toxic element panel. Mercury and Lead were low, although Aluminum, Arsenic and Cadmium were a little high; 105ppb, 5.5ppb, 0.86ppb respectively (which are all in the 5th Quintile, whatever that is). Doctor didn’t think these numbers were remarkable, but said he would give chelation (EDTA) if I wanted. Undecided on this as I have heard it could be difficult to handle if you are in the midst of a candida battle. Might think to give it a go if/when I pull out of this nosedive. For now, I am going to try a little spirulina or chlorella. Do you know if these supplements work?

    Despite my searching, I suppose that my health issues could be due to an underlying condition. I will continue to search. If anyone has any other possible ideas, whatever they might be, please feel free to post—I could use all the help I could get! I think it is a good idea to look into a naturopath, will begin searching ASAP. I clearly have the perfect storm, which is allowing a huge blast of toxins at one time into my system; astronomically high candida antigen numbers, leaky gut (very chewed up down in lower bowel), and liver is definitely under duress. Last time I had liver panel drawn, the numbers were okay, bilirubin was mildly elevated, but that seems to happen to me every time I am in bad shape.

    I do find it a little disconcerting that nobody else has had the problem of extreme anxiety/brain fog/shakes/elevated pulse, just before, during, and for several hours after BM. Could just be due to the severity of my case. I mentioned it to my doctor, and he pretty much just dismisses it, then recommends more Diflucan or Spoanox. The histamine thing has me curious. I have never heard of this and will do some poking around as soon as I finish this post. If I can find something/anything to help with the brain fog/anxiety, even some, it would go a long way to helping with this battle. Maybe that is related.

    For now, I am going to lay off antifungals (as well as probiotics) at least for a week. I will continue the strict forum diet as I have for the past 2 months. My kefir grains should be here any day. Gonna up the milk thistle, and I just ordered IntestiNew powder by RenewLife. I have to get my strength back before getting aggressive again, that’s for sure. At this point I’m still too weak to even take the dogs for a walk around the block, hopefully tomorrow.

    Thanks again for all your help forum! My appreciation is without measure. Please feel free to let me know if there is anything I can do to return the favor.

    All the best,
    -Tom

    #90312

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    I’d also check out the herb ashwagandha for anxiety and mental related stuff; a lot of people on the forum had significant improvement in their status after taking it. My wife also takes st. johns wort which improves your mood as well. I’d research about these for a bit. I had some really bad anxiety starting out and it improved within a month.

    -raster

    #90315

    TP
    Member
    Topics: 1
    Replies: 2

    Thanks raster,

    I ordered the ashwagandha from Amazon, and it arrived the other day. It’s in the chamber, but I have not yet taken it, as I am so darn hyper-reactive to everything anymore. I may get brave and give it a shot tomorrow.

    I’m just hoping I didn’t cause any permanent brain damage going thru this whole affair. I know right now, and for the last few months, I have definitely lost some cognitive function. I can tell because when I sit behind the computer and try to write—nothing. Was just starting to make inroads in the industry too. First novel is ripping it up, and there’s pressure for a follow up. Oh well, might just be a one hit wonder.

    Thanks again to you and all the other phenomenal folks here; your efforts are greatly appreciated.

    -Tom

    #90316

    flailingWcandi
    Member
    Topics: 13
    Replies: 277

    I’m NO EXPERT, only another sufferer however, most of your symptoms, from cognitive function, anxiety, heart palpitations, woozy feeling upon standing, histamine reactions, etc all seem to be related to adrenal fatigue or potentially hypothyroidism. It’s a complicated chain reaction within the endocrine system where chronic immune responses wear these systems down. Your low body temps are the red flag since they regulate body temp. among so many other body systems including blood/pressure/flow/etc..

    Ashwaganda is helpful, as well as Holy Basil Leaf, licorice root, etc…also, stress reduction (I know, seemingly impossible as I haven’t found the answer to this yet myself). I would assume you suffer from insomnia or sleep issues as well. I do and have been trying to get more sleep than I thought healthy (perhaps it’s not) by using L-tryptophan, 5HTP, valerian root and melatonin. There is debate if this is healthy, as it can disrupt serotonin levels and it’s antagonist dopamine since they increase serotonin. Despite Big Pharma’s push of SSRI’s which apparently rise serotonin, this can lead to depression; not cure it. I haven’t been on SSRI’s so I don’t know from first hand experience but, sleep/rest are major healers to adrenal/thyroid issues – they are slow healers from what I’m reading.

    Once things start getting out of balance within the body, it does all it can do to try to compensate. There is no reason to think one can’t have both SIBO as well as candida but, are they the cause of all the distress? I was once dx’s with SIBO and felt better while being treated with an elemental diet but, once back to regular foods the same old symptoms appeared again.

    Could it have been a compromised adrenal/thyroid problem from leaky gut. Lot’s of tail chasing which I don’t have the answers for but, the more I seek my own path forward the more I suspect the endocrine system is a major contributor of this suffering. Of course, it’s not the ONLY cause, as liver function, bile, anemia etc can all be intertwined in this syndrome. I understand Raster’s push of healers in attempting to balance body systems over dr’s focus on single systems but, if one can’t afford them what’s left to try?

    Anyway, know you aren’t alone in trying to unravel and heal from such a complicated enigma. I’ve suffered many of the symptoms you describe for decades and things got worse when attempting candida treatment: perhaps my body just couldn’t tolerate the additional stress treatment causes just yet. For me, putting focus on the endocrine system seems to be a primary concern over candida: as much as we all want to rid ourselves of literally rotting away from within, we don’t stand a chance to defeat this without the endocrine/immune system supporting our efforts.

    Blessings and please take what you will and leave the rest.

    #90323

    Thomas
    Member
    Topics: 71
    Replies: 605

    TP wrote: Thanks raster,

    I ordered the ashwagandha from Amazon, and it arrived the other day. It’s in the chamber, but I have not yet taken it, as I am so darn hyper-reactive to everything anymore. I may get brave and give it a shot tomorrow.

    I’m just hoping I didn’t cause any permanent brain damage going thru this whole affair. I know right now, and for the last few months, I have definitely lost some cognitive function. I can tell because when I sit behind the computer and try to write—nothing. Was just starting to make inroads in the industry too. First novel is ripping it up, and there’s pressure for a follow up. Oh well, might just be a one hit wonder.

    Thanks again to you and all the other phenomenal folks here; your efforts are greatly appreciated.

    -Tom

    Hi mate,
    most important is to take it slowly and keeping balanced. While fighting candida and bacterial overgrowth the bacteria and fungus are dying fast while your body cant handle the toxin realise fast enough. The result of that overload of toxins will make you drunk. (Brainfog) There is the possibility of a vicous circle and that is that your body is malfunctioning because of the candida overgrowth. If candida is so much covering the intestines, you, I believe, will have problems absorbing nutritions, your cells will starve even the cells off your immune system, which allows bacteria and fungus to thrive and to grow even more in the ileum and to spread into the small intestines. The high level of lactic acid will irritate the intestines and they have to produce muccus to protect itself, that in its turn hinders the absorbation of carbohydrates, the none diggested carbohydrates are not only passed out but funktioning as food for the fungus and the bacteria then they even grow stronger. They grow and they will be more and more hungry while you are starving. You get thinner and they are multiplying, while producing gas and endotoxins. The only chance is to starve them down and get your intestines healed so they dont need to produce as much muccus, get you out of malnutrition, so you immunesystem can kick in and kill bacteria. You will have to eat food which is fast digested from your system without standing long in the intestines.
    You heal your guts and you will win and break the viccious circle. Once your are back in balance your body can do the rest and protect you again.

    If brainfogged I would not take antifungals….do everything slow and dont weaken yourself. Kill them slowly not fast.

    cheers
    Thomas

    #90326

    jo2212
    Member
    Topics: 14
    Replies: 48

    Hello TP,

    You are certainly not alone in your suffering, I have also been completed debilitated by die off symptoms whenever I take any antifungals. I would concentrate on strengthening your other organs first. For me this was my gallbladder, thyroid and kidneys.

    As far as fighting the candida is concerned my naturopath has recommended Saccharomyces boulardii which is a yeast that competes with the candida to out number it in the gut, but dies after 5-7 days so will not cause a different overgrowth. This is a far less agressive approach. I start taking the Saccharomyces boulardii next week (to give my organs time to strengthen first) so will let you know if I suffer bad die off from it, I’m hopeful I won’t! This approach may work well for you, as you also can’t handle the die off toxins.

    The turning point of my treatment i feel has been sessions of kinesiology. It’s not for everyone and hard to believe until you do it but really has worked for me, definitely worth looking into as it may help you identify your other problems.

    Jo.

    #90498

    MsMollyJackson
    Member
    Topics: 9
    Replies: 29

    Ugh! I have been fighting candida since May. I too have debilitating anxiety and panic. I feel like I’m dying everyday. I’ve had to take a super slow approach because die off is so bad. I’m currently taking Kyolic 102, probiotics, and vitamins. I am getting die off from everything. I’m hoping this is my body getting stronger and attacking this at a much quicker pace??
    I have mainly used caprylic acid and oil of oregano.
    To help cope with die off, I’ve been getting acupuncture and reiki treatments. These really help with the anxiety. It’s expensive but I need to go. I’m trying to get at least two treatments/week.
    I’m out of work and barely leave my house. It’s so upsetting to live like this. I’m really scared and lonely. I’m out of work and can barely interact with my 1 1/2 year old daughter and husband. I have no family here and it’s such a struggle. I’m praying this nightmare is over soon!!

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