Dvjorge

This topic contains 3 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Latka 6 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #86282

    michelle
    Member
    Topics: 1
    Replies: 0

    Hi,
    This is my first post. I have been a forum reader for a while who have followed your posts. I am a long time candida sufferer who have tried many things without a total success.
    I am very interested in knowing your thoughts about probiotics. Can you please, share ??
    Thanks,
    Michelle.

    #86283

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    A total waste of time and money,IMO.
    I would like to have the way to recover all the money I have spent buying pharmaceutical probiotics since 2008. You can be sure it will be hundreds.
    First thing is to understand this syndrome. It is about the effect of candida metabolites and toxins in remote organs and tissues of your body. It isn’t candida itself and its colonization in mucosal tissues but candida toxins that cause the problem.
    It doesn’t matter if those toxins come from the yeast form or the phatogenic form of candida. The pathogenic form doesn’t have too much relevance in CRC.
    Yeast produces the same amount of toxins than fungus, so, having an extended colonization of the “commensal” form means the presence of this syndrome.
    Our intestinal flora don’t kill candida. If that was true, candida can not be a successful colonizer of our intestines. Bacterias share space with candida in our intestines. They can live together in a perfect harmony. See the Kefir case, yeast and bacteria live together in the same culture. Bacterias in Kefir don’t kill yeast. The problem is when there is left some empty space and the yeast growth. For instance, when you take antibiotics. If the space is created, yeast growth and gain terrain. It means more metabolites and toxins circulating in your blood and the presence of this syndrome.
    In the web, you read false information about the mutation of candida and more as the cause of this syndrome. Most of this information comes from unreputable sources. Yeast are also our enemies. It doesn’t matter if the toxins come from yeast or fungus. Medicine has only identified one more toxin produced by the mycelial form of candida. There are unicellular form of candida extremely pathogenic such as Candida Gablatra. It lives as a single cell and is unable to mutate.

    Anyway, current pharmaceutical probiotics don’t colonize the colon permanently neither contain the dominant species that reside in the human colon. The dominant species are anaerobic and facultative anaerobics which mean they can not be encapsulates with current technology. Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium aren’t part of the dominant species.
    You can not pretend to re-colonize your colon with pharmaceutical grade probiotics.

    Moreover, using my own case as an example, I will tell you that specialized lab tests have identified plenty of Lactos and Bifidos in my feces. It indicates a normal intestinal flora according to the labs. ( I can send you my CDSA results by email if you want to see them ) In spite of it, I had a very severe fungal intestinal overgrowth.

    Still no happy with that and thinking that the flora was causing my problem, I swallowed more than twenty 00 capsules filled with my daughter feces (super probiotic)
    It didn’t do anything against the infection. Following it, I did several fecal enemas using my daughter feces. It was my last intent of reshaping my colonic flora with human super probiotics in order to be cured of candidiasis. Fault one more time.
    I can mention more evidences, but it is enough.

    As you see, this isn’t about flora. This is an overgrowth that is caused by a combination of factors during our life or a trigger such as antibiotic intake.

    Save your money and concentrate yourself in eliminating the infection and everything will be corrected. The web can be your best friend or your worst enemy. It all depends how smart and selective you are at the time of learning and picking the real things.

    Good Luck,
    Jorge.

    #86294

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    Probiotics aren’t a silver bullet, but they can play a supportive role. Many studies have shown benefits, like this one I was just reading, which concludes:

    1) Fungal colonization delays process of ulcer and inflammation healing of GI tract mucosa. That effect was attenuated by probiotic therapy.
    2) Probiotic therapy seems to be effective in treatment of fungal colonization of GI tract.
    3) Lactobacillus acidophilus therapy shortens the duration of fungal colonization of mucosa (enhanced Candida clearance is associated with IL-4, INF-gamma response).

    I’d question the long-term impact of having non-indigenous species permanently colonise the gut without further research. I think the term “good bacteria” is a bit misleading too, because they’re all out for themselves. More isn’t always better. What you want is the gut flora you had before any of your problems, assuming it was ever in good shape (some people are disadvantaged from birth).

    Like Jorge said, probiotics can set you back a lot of money and don’t necessarily guarantee anything. They’re also the worst when it comes to reliable CFU counts. Fermented foods are an affordable and reliable option. I’ve been wondering about lactate content lately though. Nothing seems straightforward any more…

    #86307

    Latka
    Member
    Topics: 5
    Replies: 128

    That’s an important point, Javizy, that the term ‘good bacteria’ is a bit misleading. What is important is to establish a proper balance in the gut. I think initially I got fooled by the idea that if I just keep taking this ‘good bacteria’ I can fix my problem. I actually ended up a lot worse for it. Ever since I started taking a stronger strain probiotic in May I have been super bloated; I look about 5 months pregnant and my skin is in a terrible condition (which I believe to be caused by problems in the gut). I just had a check up the past week and apparently I no longer have Candida overgrowth. BUT I am in a lot worse shape now: I look and feel so much worse and I have a growing suspicion that I may have taken too many of these ‘good’ bacterias? perhaps even introduced them somewhere where they should not be such as the small intestine?

    Not sure what to do next. I have stopped taking the probiotics for now. I also cannot handle any fermented dairy unless I want to look like I’m about to give birth at any minute now.

    It is of course possible that taking probiotics can be help someone, depending on the problem or imbalance they have (I was fine on the weaker probiotics I took earlier on). But it is so difficult to know what to do to find the right balance.

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