Biofilms: Possible protocol for a faster recovery

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  • #81520

    Javizy
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    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    I’ve just finished reading some very interesting material on biofilms, and I really think they could hold the answer for people struggling to overcome their candida, dysbiosis, h. pylori infection etc.

    Take the fact that pathogens that form biofilms become 100-1000 times more resistant to antimicrobials, including pharmaceuticals. This means nystatin, garlic, oregano oil etc will only have a superficial effect in killing stray candida, while the biofilm colonies remain unscathed.

    It could partly explain why some people are able to recover in a few months, while others struggle for years. If you aren’t taking things that break the biofilms down and/or making mistakes like supplemented iron, magnesium or calcium, then they’ll maintain themselves indefinitely.

    Here’s an excellent slideshow that explains everything and has a protocol towards the end.

    A New Approach to Treating Chronic Gastrointestinal Infections

    More info on other sites:

    Life on the edge: the clinical implications of gastrointestinal biofilm (candida is mentioned repeatedly)

    Destabilizing Gut Biofilms by Simple Remedies

    Biofilm Protocol for Lyme and Gut Pathogens

    #81533

    raster
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    Topics: 104
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    Interesting javizy,

    They mention that biofilms can be controlled by the following:

    -Prebiotics and probiotics
    -EDTA (what is this?)
    -Iron chelating compounds
    -Mucous degrading enzymes
    -Others

    I think I am going to get some vitamin E today!

    -raster

    #81538

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    raster wrote: Interesting javizy,

    They mention that biofilms can be controlled by the following:

    -Prebiotics and probiotics
    -EDTA (what is this?)
    -Iron chelating compounds
    -Mucous degrading enzymes
    -Others

    I think I am going to get some vitamin E today!

    -raster

    I’m not sure what EDTA is exactly but it’s available on Amazon as a supplement. I think it’s able to help erode the biofilms and chelate some of the toxins. There’s a page on it in the slideshow and it’s mentioned in the comments on the inflammation blog (I really recommend reading more of those entries, it’s a great blog).

    This is new to me but it’s quite interesting. It seems like just a few extra things need to be added to the protocol to cover the biofilm base. If you weaken them with the things mentioned in the articles, following up with your anti-fungals and probiotics will be much more effective. They’re pretty much invincible in those fibrous disease factories.

    I think this could be really important for people who’ve suffered for years with candida and dysbiosis, since biofilms are practically guaranteed to have firmly established themselves. But then, maybe the candida needs to reach this kind of stage before it starts causing symptoms? Since it’s a matter of a few supplements and a slight change of approach, it seems worth a shot in any case.

    I’m going to keep reading and try to decide on a set of supplements and a way of taking them. I think it could cause some serious, possibly dangerous die-off if you rushed into it.

    #81542

    dvjorge
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    Topics: 283
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    EDTA is a chelator agent. It is one of the first chelators.
    I have told many times in the forums that magnesium, iron, and calcium are needed ingredients for biofilm formations. Biofilm’s matrix are different. It is according to its microbial structure what defines the matrix formation.

    EDTA is able to disrupt polarization and help to disrupt biofilms.

    http://aem.asm.org/content/72/3/2064
    Jorge.

    #81547

    dvjorge
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    Topics: 283
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    It is my belief SF-722 acts as a candida biofilm disruptor.
    Science has found that some fatty acids are able to disrupt candida albicans and other biofilm formations.

    cis-2-decenoic acid produced by some bacteria are able to disrupt fungal biofilms.

    See the similitude, SF 722 is a 10-decenoic fatty acid.

    http://jb.asm.org/content/191/5/1393.short

    I also believe that taking Royal Jelly will disrupt candida albicans biofilms.
    Royal Jelly is an unique compound that contain 2-decenoic acid.

    http://www.albaherbal.com/herbal-research/10-hydroxy-2-decenoic-acid-10-hda/

    Jorge.

    #81548

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
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    Hello dvgorge,

    Yes, I was thinking SF722 was a biofilm disruptor also! I think my naturopath thoroughly knows about this stuff and has planned it all out for me, so I don’t think there is much more I need to change.

    I got the prebiotics and probiotics down, I am taking a variety of enzymes, I am taking SF722 which breaks down biofilms, so the only thing I am missing is chelation. I will discuss chelation with him and see what his thoughts are on it. I have a feeling this is a controversial way of healing with some pros and cons.

    I will read this slideshow again in time.

    -raster

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    #81549

    dvjorge
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    #81551

    dvjorge
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    Topics: 283
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    Javizy,
    I have written in the Prof. Ayers blog in the past. He has answered me questions about biofilms. Let me see if I find the topics to post them right here.
    Jorge.

    #81552

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    The link titled ‘Life on the edge’ suggests a candida-specific protocol. You begin with the enzymes and add the EDTA later on. It’s worth a read too.

    Art Ayers (the author of the other blog) has a number of posts on biofilms and he seems to be convinced they play a key role in inflammatory conditions.

    #81553

    dvjorge
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    Topics: 283
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    Protease is also effective disrupting biofilms. Protease is the enzyme with more antimicrobial activity.

    http://academicjournals.org/ajmr/PDF/Pdf2010/18Jul/Molobela%20et%20al.pdf

    Jorge.

    #81582

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
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    raster wrote: Interesting javizy,

    They mention that biofilms can be controlled by the following:

    -Prebiotics and probiotics
    -EDTA (what is this?)
    -Iron chelating compounds
    -Mucous degrading enzymes
    -Others

    I think I am going to get some vitamin E today!

    -raster

    Raster,
    Apo-Lactoferrin is an iron chelating compound. It also boosts the immune system and has antifungal properties.

    A good idea is :
    1-Sf 722
    2-Royal Jelly
    3-Lactoferrin
    4-EDTA
    5-Protease enzyme
    6-Probiotics

    This should create a big problem to the biofilms.
    Jorge.

    #81614

    candida_sucks
    Member
    Topics: 3
    Replies: 148

    Very interesting, Javizy.

    I spent some time reading that ‘Life on the edge’ link you posted, where it talks about beta glucanase and how it can break down the walls of candida biofilms. A google search on beta glucanase supplements yielded this page:

    beta glucanase

    The above page talks about candida quite a bit, and there is a product at the bottom (VeganZyme) that contains beta glucanase, as well as protease and other enzymes. The web site sells it directly. I see that Amazon also sells it, but for a little more.

    What do you guys think about this VeganZyme? I think I may have to give it a try…

    I’ll continue to check out the other links you posted.

    Cheers

    #81616

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    candida_sucks wrote: Very interesting, Javizy.

    I spent some time reading that ‘Life on the edge’ link you posted, where it talks about beta glucanase and how it can break down the walls of candida biofilms. A google search on beta glucanase supplements yielded this page:

    beta glucanase

    The above page talks about candida quite a bit, and there is a product at the bottom (VeganZyme) that contains beta glucanase, as well as protease and other enzymes. The web site sells it directly. I see that Amazon also sells it, but for a little more.

    What do you guys think about this VeganZyme? I think I may have to give it a try…

    Apart from the rice flour, which would be negligible anyway, it looks like a great product. Cellulase is mentioned in one of those articles as being important for breaking down the biofilm’s structure. A lot of those other enzymes break down fibrin. Nattokinase is mentioned as being especially effective for biofilms.

    VeganZyme could be just the kind of enzyme blend the ‘Life on the edge article’ mentioned. I wouldn’t begin using it until you’ve got an overall plan for attacking the biofilms though. I don’t think any one of these things will get results, but together as part of a protocol including anti-fungals they could be very effective. The slideshow seems to have the most details, so let me know what you think after you read it.

    #81667

    Pattinoo
    Member
    Topics: 12
    Replies: 50

    So am I interpreting this right as stating that Calcium and Magnesium prevent the biofilms from breaking down? My understanding is that these are needed to compensate for mineral depletion in the diet.

    #81677

    Javizy
    Member
    Topics: 20
    Replies: 945

    Pattinoo wrote: So am I interpreting this right as stating that Calcium and Magnesium prevent the biofilms from breaking down? My understanding is that these are needed to compensate for mineral depletion in the diet.

    They’re necessary, along with iron, for the formation/maintenance of biofilms, like Jorge said above. Taking them now may or may not do any harm, but if you take them during an anti-biofilm protocol, it’d be like smashing down a wall and then giving candida bricks and cement.

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