Article on methylation and how it all fits together

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  • #113432

    ThomasJoel2
    Participant
    Topics: 9
    Replies: 375

    Here’s an article that attempts to describe how everything, including heavy metals, candida, viruses, and methylation all fit together. It’s not scientifically written, more of an opinion piece, but still very good food for thought IMO.

    https://d3jtnb9ebrc3nq.cloudfront.net/pd-588d5f6326bf49b4a285a6ec33c21524-de4f90aaad153e5c459464b6fce160ca.pdf

    My favorite snippet: “You won’t get rid of yeast until the heavy metals are gone. You won’t get rid of heavy metals until methylation is optimized and microbial infections are targeted. And you won’t completely get rid of infections until the immune system is balanced.”

    #113442

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    Thats a very good article and one of the few that speaks about most of the the issues that need to be focused on. It could be improved on, but its nice to see some doctors are beginning to see the whole picture. After spending some time studying immunology, I would say testing for and addressing ALL infections and immune deficiencies/imbalances right out of the gate is pretty crucial. Im not the only one, either. Using the right tests and knowing how to interpret those based on the results of all the other tests makes all the difference in the world. Trying to put down gut infections with chronic viral/spirochete/mycobacterium infections is like trying to drive up an ice covered mountain, you might make it 1 or 200 feet, but thats about it. And all that is a futile effort if your one of the 25% that cant detox the mycotoxins or are having chronic exposure, so throwing a C3a/C4a test (with TGF-b1 is even better) is also a must. And all that isnt going to make much of difference if a person is having ongoing immune responses to food, though immune therapy can really help alot with that. With the exception of the bad cases, going after hormones might not even be neccesary after addressing that. Interestingly, Dr Cheney’s view is that the body kind of winds down methylation as a protective measure when inflamed, in any case, thats pretty much one of the last things to supplement for anyways. For some reason, almost all these docs leave out dental work. I dont get that at all. So far he’s the only doc (or other person period!) ive ever seen mention using stuff transdermally, thats awesome. I swear I keep my compounding pharmacy in business making me creams. That and the minimal targeted supplementation. I like this guy, he obviously studies alot and he’s a thinker. He gets it. The body keeps all systems in check by intertwining them with all other systems, even emotion and thought figure into that. Its amazing and beyond brilliant when you really get into the nuts and bolts of it. Everything effects everything.

    FYI, the gi effects is a good test but its definately not the end all. The better docs are using that in conjunction with other tests, it still misses alot of things alot of the time. Dr Conley is probably the best at finding stuff, a few years ago he was even going as far as using a lab in africa and I believe he’s even improved his success since then. I would be curious to know exactly what he’s doing.

    A good example:
    http://scdlifestyle.com/2013/04/6-gut-infection-case-studies-why-you-should-get-stool-testing-done-asap/

    One thing that is becoming brutally apparent. If a person gets a yeast overgrowth, they have other health issues. If its anything more than an inconvenience thats somewhat easily treated, they’ve got a serious problem. If its as bad as alot of people on here, especially with alot of the other symptoms and problems their having, then the yeast is probably the least of their worries and yeast treatment/healthy food & supplements should definitely not be looked at as the source of eliminating their woes. I would say this is true over 90% of the time.

    #113443

    yisucks
    Participant
    Topics: 131
    Replies: 331

    awesome article! who is this guy? wish i could see him!

    #113449

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    impossible;51963 wrote: Thats a very good article and one of the few that speaks about most of the the issues that need to be focused on. It could be improved on, but its nice to see some doctors are beginning to see the whole picture. After spending some time studying immunology, I would say testing for and addressing ALL infections and immune deficiencies/imbalances right out of the gate is pretty crucial. Im not the only one, either. Using the right tests and knowing how to interpret those based on the results of all the other tests makes all the difference in the world. Trying to put down gut infections with chronic viral/spirochete/mycobacterium infections is like trying to drive up an ice covered mountain, you might make it 1 or 200 feet, but thats about it. And all that is a futile effort if your one of the 25% that cant detox the mycotoxins or are having chronic exposure, so throwing a C3a/C4a test (with TGF-b1 is even better) is also a must. And all that isnt going to make much of difference if a person is having ongoing immune responses to food, though immune therapy can really help alot with that. With the exception of the bad cases, going after hormones might not even be neccesary after addressing that. Interestingly, Dr Cheney’s view is that the body kind of winds down methylation as a protective measure when inflamed, in any case, thats pretty much one of the last things to supplement for anyways. For some reason, almost all these docs leave out dental work. I dont get that at all. So far he’s the only doc (or other person period!) ive ever seen mention using stuff transdermally, thats awesome. I swear I keep my compounding pharmacy in business making me creams. That and the minimal targeted supplementation. I like this guy, he obviously studies alot and he’s a thinker. He gets it. The body keeps all systems in check by intertwining them with all other systems, even emotion and thought figure into that. Its amazing and beyond brilliant when you really get into the nuts and bolts of it. Everything effects everything.

    FYI, the gi effects is a good test but its definately not the end all. The better docs are using that in conjunction with other tests, it still misses alot of things alot of the time. Dr Conley is probably the best at finding stuff, a few years ago he was even going as far as using a lab in africa and I believe he’s even improved his success since then. I would be curious to know exactly what he’s doing.

    A good example:
    http://scdlifestyle.com/2013/04/6-gut-infection-case-studies-why-you-should-get-stool-testing-done-asap/

    One thing that is becoming brutally apparent. If a person gets a yeast overgrowth, they have other health issues. If its anything more than an inconvenience thats somewhat easily treated, they’ve got a serious problem. If its as bad as alot of people on here, especially with alot of the other symptoms and problems their having, then the yeast is probably the least of their worries and yeast treatment/healthy food & supplements should definitely not be looked at as the source of eliminating their woes. I would say this is true over 90% of the time.

    I agree with some things about this article and disagree with others.

    A chronic intestinal yeast overgrowth isn’t always triggered by the same cause. It is absolutely true the immune system plays a big role allowing it or not, but the antagonistic friendly microbiome also plays a role.

    We need to recognize the fact that a severe disruption of the friendly flora allows yeast proliferation and germination in the intestines. Yeast metabolites maneuver the immune system to the point they can paralyze cell-mediated immunity. It is the same overgrowth that causes the immune unbalance many times.

    The most common scenery is someone who takes antibiotics and develops this syndrome. Yes, it is true no everybody who takes antibiotics develops chronic candidiasis. This is probably linked to the length of the antibiotic course, potency of the antibiotic, condition of the intestinal flora and the immune system.

    What happens with candida sufferers is there are many variable and underlying causes. Each person need to figure out and research if any hidden cause is impeding the success of an anticandida protocol. Here is where heavy metals, co-infections, adrenal fatigue,and any immune load should be investigated. Keep in mind, that even a “healthy” person gonna have a battle to eradicate an intestinal yeast overgrowth caused by antibiotics. Candida has many resources to survive anti-yeast medicines and an immune response against it.

    Anything that benefits and balance the immune system is a good new for candida sufferers.

    Jorge.

    #113451

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    dvjorge;51970 wrote:

    I agree with some things about this article and disagree with others.

    A chronic intestinal yeast overgrowth isn’t always triggered by the same cause. It is absolutely true the immune system plays a big role allowing it or not, but the antagonistic friendly microbiome also plays a role.

    We need to recognize the fact that a severe disruption of the friendly flora allows yeast proliferation and germination in the intestines. Yeast metabolites maneuver the immune system to the point they can paralyze cell-mediated immunity. It is the same overgrowth that causes the immune unbalance many times.

    The most common scenery is someone who takes antibiotics and develops this syndrome. Yes, it is true no everybody who takes antibiotics develops chronic candidiasis. This is probably linked to the length of the antibiotic course, potency of the antibiotic, condition of the intestinal flora and the immune system.

    What happens with candida sufferers is there are many variable and underlying causes. Each person need to figure out and research if any hidden cause is impeding the success of an anticandida protocol. Here is where heavy metals, co-infections, adrenal fatigue,and any immune load should be investigated. Keep in mind, that even a “healthy” person gonna have a battle to eradicate an intestinal yeast overgrowth caused by antibiotics. Candida has many resources to survive anti-yeast medicines and an immune response against it.

    Anything that benefits and balance the immune system is a good new for candida sufferers.

    Jorge.

    I mostly agree, to a point. Other bugs exert an even greater influence on the immune system than candida can, and if there is enough of an immune breakdown to allow a candida infection, you can bet these guys are present too, and most likely preceded it. This is purely the argument I make. If candida overgrowth was the main problem, then prolonged successful treatment with antifungals should be enough to sway things back in the immune systems favor. This is rarely the case, it almost always comes back. How many other infections are there that are like that? I dont think its because candida is that much of a bad ass at all, its just not the problem. I dont think any “healthy” people get candida overgrowths, not that arent fixed in a matter of a few weeks anyways, which happens, ive seen it myself. I dont see antibiotics as a cause, just a trigger. I’ll even point this out, in every immunology report I’ve read T cells drawn from an infected person stimulated with candida antigen elicit mainly an IFN-g responses. And when isolated from iTregs (from “washing”) and Th3 cells response normalizes. Those dont occur in sufficient numbers to dampen immune response because of candida. Any studies I have seen that created a delayed response in an anergic person used therapies that combated exactly the effects of other bugs and/or mycotoxin illness. I would be willing to bet the farm that cytokine profiles from crc sufferers would show large amounts of IL-10 and TGF-b.

    #113452

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    dvjorge;51970 wrote:

    Anything that benefits and balance the immune system is a good new for candida sufferers.

    Truer words were never spoken.

    And yet only a rare few follow the word. It really makes me wonder.

    #113454

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    I agree with your points and would like to know the absolute true. I still believe a lot in what yeast is able to cause one time it has germinated and growth.

    What I have learned is people suffering yeast overgrowth should rule out mercury, co-infections, severe adrenal fatigue, etc. They also need to unload the immune system as much as possible avoiding allergens, toxins, and anything that be antigenic.

    Immune boosters such as transfer factor, cimetidine, zinc, immune shoots, etc may help too. Until more clean you be, it is better to overcome this syndrome.

    Jorge.

    #113458

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    You are a very smart guy who encourage me to share with you all my reading.

    Time ago, I read an article that explains how mannan ( a protein from the yeast cell wall ) influences the immune system. Curiously, mannan itself is an immune stimuli but when it reaches serum (the blood in this case) it mixes with copper creating an immune complex that has immune suppression mechanisms. I also read that mannan catabolization ( elimination ) is very slow.

    Could be this the cause why many candida sufferers relapse after a yeast elimination program ??

    If you release the treatment and there is still Th1 suppression caused by the presence of mannan, the overgrowth may return or the yeast reinoculate easily without a proper immune response ??

    I really don’t know why the immune system isn’t able to hold the yeast controlled. The underlying hidden cause still persist ??

    It is the copper/mannan complex what severely affects Th1. DMPS and DMSA chelate copper. Most people who takes these chelators to chelate mercury thinking it is the cause of their yeast overgrowth are able to recover after some time. What is the real reason here mercury elimination or copper/mannan complex elimination. DMSA and DMPS chelate copper and may accelerate the complex catabolization and Th1 recovers ??

    Jorge.

    #113471

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    It is my opinion that when mercury/heavy metals are the problem and are detoxed, it frees up the entire process of natural detoxification, cell creation, antioxidant status, and in many ways immune balance. Plus it is awesome at detoxing alot of circulating/settled immune complexes and does other things like busts up biofilms, kills free radicals, bolsters cell membranes, etc. The detox agents even have thes effects directly. Plus they cause a reduction in macrophage inflammation, which reduces microglia(they are macrophages) inflammation and thus less neuro inflammation. This leads to a much better frame of mind/less stress, and we all know how powerful that can be.

    When the cell is in an oxidized state, it stands that intracellular reduced glutathione is in short supply. When this happens, immune cells actually stimulate Th2 immunity instead of Th1. I think this is one of the major factors. Many people actually clean up chronic candidiasis with high doses of selenium, thats exactly what that supplementation counters. Same with viral infections. I think its really a combination of everything. But, natural methylation holdups due to genetics and esp with any toxic load will result in the same problem. There can also be other genetic mutations such as sod that result in alot less glutathione production. Mold/lyme mycotoxin exposure can really %#$& up someones immune system in more ways than average mercury exposure can. And if you think a Th2 dominant immune system is bad, a Th3 dominant one is even worse. With the extreme numbers of TGF-b that happens with mycotoxin exposure along with a source of of IL-10 that comes from the inevitable viral activation (TGF-b actually directly activates virus’s) you have Th3 dominance. Then you NO active lymphocyte driven immune activity (due to Th3 suppression & suppressing cytokines from the bugs and immune system), no sIgA, and a TON of inflammation. Lyme/coinfections even actually cause peripheral immune T cells to become iTregs. Dr Shoemaker is a good source of info on what mold can do to a person. 25% of the population actually has innate immune genetics that prevent them from being able to present mycotoxin antigens to t cells properly, so they never get detoxed. Then the innate immune system becomes hypersensitive to these toxins. 95% of chronic lyme sufferers actually have these genetics (lyme produces mycotoxins). This is also a reason some people have such bad herx reactions, candida is a also a source of some of those mycotoxins.

    And like I said, wheres there’s candida, there’s other bugs, and where there’s other bugs, there’s even stronger immune suppression.

    FYI phytosel is the only selenium I recommend for candida sufferers, 800 mcg day, and for some reason it is hard to find right now.

    #113490

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    There are eight currently identified members of the human herpes virus family. They are ubiquitous and extremely well adapted pathogens. The name comes from the Greek ‘herpein’ – ‘to creep’, describing the chronic, latent or recurrent nature of infections.

    Research conducted on cytomegalovirus (CMV) indicates that the viral human IL-10 homolog, cmvIL-10, is important in inhibiting pro-inflammatory cytokine synthesis. The cmvIL-10 protein has 27% identity with hIL-10 and only one conserved residue out of the nine amino acids that make up the functional site for cytokine synthesis inhibition on hIL-10. There is, however, much similarity in the functions of hIL-10 and cmvIL-10. Both have been shown to down regulate IFN-γ, IL-1α, GM-CSF, IL-6 and TNF-α, which are all pro-inflammatory cytokines. They have also been shown to play a role in downregulating MHC I and MHC II and up regulating HLA-G (non-classical MHC I). These two events allow for immune evasion by suppressing the cell-mediated immune response and natural killer cell response, respectively. The similarities between hIL-10 and cmvIL-10 may be explained by the fact that hIL-10 and cmvIL-10 both use the same cell surface receptor, the hIL-10 receptor. One difference in the function of hIL-10 and cmvIL-10 is that hIL-10 causes human peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMC) to both increase and decrease in proliferation whereas cmvIL-10 only causes a decrease in proliferation of PBMCs. This indicates that cmvIL-10 may lack the stimulatory effects that hIL-10 has on these cells.[11]

    Another one of the many ways in which herpes viruses evade the immune system is by down regulation of MHC I and MHC II. This is observed in almost every human herpesvirus. Down regulation of MHC I and MHC II can come about by many different mechanisms, most causing the MHC to be absent from the cell surface. As discussed above, one way is by a viral chemokine homolog such as IL-10. Another mechanism to down regulate MHCs is to encode viral proteins that detain the newly formed MHC in the endoplasmic reticulum (ER). The MHC cannot reach the cell surface and therefore cannot activate the T cell response. The MHCs can also be targeted for destruction in the proteasome or lysosome. The ER protein TAP also plays a role in MHC down regulation. Viral proteins inhibit TAP preventing the MHC from picking up a viral antigen peptide. This prevents proper folding of the MHC and therefore the MHC does not reach the cell surface.[13]

    It is important to note that HLA-G is often up regulated in addition to downregulation of MHC I and MHC II. This prevents the natural killer cell response.[citation needed]

    Viruses have evolved elaborate mechanisms to target many aspects of the host’s immune response. The cytokine IFN-γ plays a central role in resistance of the host to infection via direct antiviral effects as well as modulation of the immune response. In this study, we demonstrate that the Epstein-Barr virus (EBV) immediate-early protein, BZLF1, inhibits the IFN-γ signaling pathway. BZLF1 decreases the ability of IFN-γ to activate a variety of important downstream target genes, such as IRF-1, p48, and CIITA, and prevents IFN-γ-induced class II MHC surface expression. Additionally, BZLF1 inhibits IFN-γ-induced STAT1 tyrosine phosphorylation and nuclear translocation. Finally, we demonstrate that BZLF1 decreases expression of the IFN-γ receptor, suggesting a mechanism by which EBV may escape antiviral immune responses during primary infection.

    #113491

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    I have asked a few people that have candidiasis if they got really sick before their symptoms started, or if they stopped getting sick after getting very sick and didnt feel signs of direct illness until candida infection. So far, usually after taking a minute to think, almost all have said yes. When asked if that included a sore throat, so far 100% have said yes (about ten people so far, including myself). About half had other signs of active “silent” viral infection from then on, before yeast, including neuro issues, depression/anxiety, upper back/neck pain, and what sounds like food sensitivities-intermittent fatigue & brain fog that are almost always better in the morning. Thats an awful lot of correlation.

    Its when you stop getting sick or the sore throat goes away that your in deep crap. Leaves you wide open for yeast overgrowth too.

    A couple, I didnt ask all, also had this bad bout correlate with mold exposure. Same with me too.

    #113527

    kodaz2005
    Member
    Topics: 37
    Replies: 172

    ThomasJoel2;51953 wrote: Here’s an article that attempts to describe how everything, including heavy metals, candida, viruses, and methylation all fit together. It’s not scientifically written, more of an opinion piece, but still very good food for thought IMO.

    https://d3jtnb9ebrc3nq.cloudfront.net/pd-588d5f6326bf49b4a285a6ec33c21524-de4f90aaad153e5c459464b6fce160ca.pdf

    My favorite snippet: “You won’t get rid of yeast until the heavy metals are gone. You won’t get rid of heavy metals until methylation is optimized and microbial infections are targeted. And you won’t completely get rid of infections until the immune system is balanced.”

    Thomas, Thanks for posting the article is was excellent and really well thought out. Ironically when I noticed the first post regarding methylation on this forum at nearly the same time someone on another forum I had participated in brought the whole methylation angle to my attention.

    Of course to do the methylation correctly you need the dna panel done. I was ready to order the panel and the FDA came out and shut down 23andme from conducting any new dna tests. As if I didn’t dislike them to begin with.

    I would assume if the FDA has blocked 23andme that they have done the same to other type labs. Does anyone know of any labs outside the US that would offer the service? We all know the fda moves about as fast as LA traffic at rush hour.

    #113528

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    kodaz2005;52048 wrote:

    Here’s an article that attempts to describe how everything, including heavy metals, candida, viruses, and methylation all fit together. It’s not scientifically written, more of an opinion piece, but still very good food for thought IMO.

    https://d3jtnb9ebrc3nq.cloudfront.net/pd-588d5f6326bf49b4a285a6ec33c21524-de4f90aaad153e5c459464b6fce160ca.pdf

    My favorite snippet: “You won’t get rid of yeast until the heavy metals are gone. You won’t get rid of heavy metals until methylation is optimized and microbial infections are targeted. And you won’t completely get rid of infections until the immune system is balanced.”

    Thomas, Thanks for posting the article is was excellent and really well thought out. Ironically when I noticed the first post regarding methylation on this forum at nearly the same time someone on another forum I had participated in brought the whole methylation angle to my attention.

    Of course to do the methylation correctly you need the dna panel done. I was ready to order the panel and the FDA came out and shut down 23andme from conducting any new dna tests. As if I didn’t dislike them to begin with.

    I would assume if the FDA has blocked 23andme that they have done the same to other type labs. Does anyone know of any labs outside the US that would offer the service? We all know the fda moves about as fast as LA traffic at rush hour.

    You don’t need a frickin’ DNA panel done! This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. IN order to heal the methylation cycle, the single most important thing you need to worry about beforehand is your body pH levels. If you are acidic the methylation cycle will basically completely unwind and you are wasting your time and money. Your body pH NEEDS to be close to neutral for any methylation cycle to be effective.

    Additionally, in order to heal the methylation cycle, you need the heal the whole frickin’ cycle. You can do this without any testing at all, you just need to know a good professional to consult who can give/advise you the best supplements. It costs hundreds of dollars per month just to address the methylation cycle (FYI).

    You have to address a variety of things within the body first before you to anything with the methylation cycle. You need to stabilize the immune system, get the candida mostly under control, and you need to get all of your organs stabilized (such as liver). Certain overgrowths such as microbes need to be addressed before you start to do it.

    The biggest disruptors of methylation cycles is caseine (dairy) and gluten. If you are consuming oat bran and (north american) cow’s yogurt, this is disrupting your methylation cycle. You need to make dietary changes before you fix the cycle and these need to be mostly permanent changes.

    I’m just sharing the advice I got from my naturopath who knows all about this. He likely would agree with the article and most importantly, he would agree with dvjorge’s statement:

    “What happens with candida sufferers is there are many variable and underlying causes. Each person need to figure out and research if any hidden cause is impeding the success of an anticandida protocol. Here is where heavy metals, co-infections, adrenal fatigue,and any immune load should be investigated. Keep in mind, that even a “healthy” person gonna have a battle to eradicate an intestinal yeast overgrowth caused by antibiotics. Candida has many resources to survive anti-yeast medicines and an immune response against it.”

    I think my naturopath would likely do something like this as a protocol:

    -stabilize the patient and their symptoms, heal the organs that are damaged all together at the same time.
    -get patients immune system stronger via healing the thyroid
    -get patients pH to neutral
    -attack these co-infections such as microbes, bacteria, viruses, etc.
    -chelate heavy metals
    -then address methylation cycle

    Of course these treatments likely overlap, but I want to point out that the methylation cycle healing is the last thing he addresses and not the first.

    -raster

    #113529

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    kodaz2005;52048 wrote:

    Here’s an article that attempts to describe how everything, including heavy metals, candida, viruses, and methylation all fit together. It’s not scientifically written, more of an opinion piece, but still very good food for thought IMO.

    https://d3jtnb9ebrc3nq.cloudfront.net/pd-588d5f6326bf49b4a285a6ec33c21524-de4f90aaad153e5c459464b6fce160ca.pdf

    My favorite snippet: “You won’t get rid of yeast until the heavy metals are gone. You won’t get rid of heavy metals until methylation is optimized and microbial infections are targeted. And you won’t completely get rid of infections until the immune system is balanced.”

    Thomas, Thanks for posting the article is was excellent and really well thought out. Ironically when I noticed the first post regarding methylation on this forum at nearly the same time someone on another forum I had participated in brought the whole methylation angle to my attention.

    Of course to do the methylation correctly you need the dna panel done. I was ready to order the panel and the FDA came out and shut down 23andme from conducting any new dna tests. As if I didn’t dislike them to begin with.

    I would assume if the FDA has blocked 23andme that they have done the same to other type labs. Does anyone know of any labs outside the US that would offer the service? We all know the fda moves about as fast as LA traffic at rush hour.

    You can still get your dna data, they just dont report your predisposition to diseases now.

    #113530

    impossible
    Member
    Topics: 16
    Replies: 606

    raster;52049 wrote:
    You don’t need a frickin’ DNA panel done! This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. IN order to heal the methylation cycle, the single most important thing you need to worry about beforehand is your body pH levels. If you are acidic the methylation cycle will basically completely unwind and you are wasting your time and money. Your body pH NEEDS to be close to neutral for any methylation cycle to be effective.

    Additionally, in order to heal the methylation cycle, you need the heal the whole frickin’ cycle. You can do this without any testing at all, you just need to know a good professional to consult who can give/advise you the best supplements. It costs hundreds of dollars per month just to address the methylation cycle (FYI).

    You have to address a variety of things within the body first before you to anything with the methylation cycle. You need to stabilize the immune system, get the candida mostly under control, and you need to get all of your organs stabilized (such as liver). Certain overgrowths such as microbes need to be addressed before you start to do it.

    The biggest disruptors of methylation cycles is caseine (dairy) and gluten. If you are consuming oat bran and (north american) cow’s yogurt, this is disrupting your methylation cycle. You need to make dietary changes before you fix the cycle and these need to be mostly permanent changes.

    I’m just sharing the advice I got from my naturopath who knows all about this. He likely would agree with the article and most importantly, he would agree with dvjorge’s statement:

    “What happens with candida sufferers is there are many variable and underlying causes. Each person need to figure out and research if any hidden cause is impeding the success of an anticandida protocol. Here is where heavy metals, co-infections, adrenal fatigue,and any immune load should be investigated. Keep in mind, that even a “healthy” person gonna have a battle to eradicate an intestinal yeast overgrowth caused by antibiotics. Candida has many resources to survive anti-yeast medicines and an immune response against it.”

    I think my naturopath would likely do something like this as a protocol:

    -stabilize the patient and their symptoms, heal the organs that are damaged all together at the same time.
    -get patients immune system stronger via healing the thyroid
    -get patients pH to neutral
    -attack these co-infections such as microbes, bacteria, viruses, etc.
    -chelate heavy metals
    -then address methylation cycle

    Of course these treatments likely overlap, but I want to point out that the methylation cycle healing is the last thing he addresses and not the first.

    -raster

    Im sorry, but you dont have a damn clue what you are talking about here and giving advice like that when you dont, especially when its something that can have as much of an effect as this, with sick people, is downright DANGEROUS. PERIOD. Yes, you have to rid of inflammation and infections first, but anything you have said otherwise is absolute misinformation. You had better be careful or you could be be responsible for really hurting somebody.

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