Antifungals that cause yeast overgrowth to become virulent fungal infections

Home The Candida Forum Candida Questions Antifungals that cause yeast overgrowth to become virulent fungal infections

This topic contains 7 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Vegan Catlady 5 years ago.

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #116726

    Vegan Catlady
    Member
    Topics: 34
    Replies: 626

    I started this thread for any posters that are having this experience.

    I am not interested in people who want to argue for their antifungal regimen, but for people who are experiencing their candida getting worse for having used antifungals.

    I have read on a few forums where some people think (and back-up with studies) that the antifungals they introduced to their diet (not food,but supplements) caused the candida to “seem” to spread/or get angry. Over time, different symptoms appeared.

    I wouldnt put words in mouths, if those people are not on this forum,so be it.

    When I first realized I had an overgrowth, I reacted by following the worn path of others who also followed the worn path…taking supplements and things not naturally found in the diet like oils,enzymes,antifungals.

    After re-reading my own experiences-thread, I realized that had I allowed the body to handle the overgrowth without intervention, I wouldnt have experienced some of the symptoms that showed up AFTER the intro of antifungals.

    Not at all talking about die-off here.

    I dont want to debate the efficacy of forum-favorites like probiotics, but to discuss having had the experience of candida morphing into something different than it was in the beginning.

    #116735

    Danny33
    Member
    Topics: 25
    Replies: 362

    Vegan Catlady;55247 wrote: I started this thread for any posters that are having this experience.

    I am not interested in people who want to argue for their antifungal regimen, but for people who are experiencing their candida getting worse for having used antifungals.

    I have read on a few forums where some people think (and back-up with studies) that the antifungals they introduced to their diet (not food,but supplements) caused the candida to “seem” to spread/or get angry. Over time, different symptoms appeared.

    I wouldnt put words in mouths, if those people are not on this forum,so be it.

    When I first realized I had an overgrowth, I reacted by following the worn path of others who also followed the worn path…taking supplements and things not naturally found in the diet like oils,enzymes,antifungals.

    After re-reading my own experiences-thread, I realized that had I allowed the body to handle the overgrowth without intervention, I wouldn’t have experienced some of the symptoms that showed up AFTER the intro of antifungals.

    Not at all talking about die-off here.

    I dont want to debate the efficacy of forum-favorites like probiotics, but to discuss having had the experience of candida morphing into something different than it was in the beginning.

    VC,

    I think this is an extremely important topic.
    To answer your question YES, I have experienced new symptoms in the past while on natural anti-fungals.

    If I could go back in time I probably would have never touched most of the natural anti-fungals knowing how toxic it is for my beneficial flora. Some natural anti-microbials such as oil of oregano, grapefruit seed extract, Clove oil, etc. are very toxic on our beneficials and further thinning out our bacterial diversity in the gut.

    Crippling the guts bacterial diversity will lead to new food sensitives, allergies, and autoimmunity. Further benefiting the yeast that may be present.

    Specific species of bacteria are needed for a proper functioning immune system, I believe the majority of “Natural” anti-fungals are toxic to gut flora. The very thing needed for the aggressive and suppressive parts of our immune system.

    While some anti-fungals may kill or inhibit certain species of susceptible yeast, Please need to USE CAUTION with these.

    -D

    #116736

    Vegan Catlady
    Member
    Topics: 34
    Replies: 626

    Danny33;55256 wrote:
    VC,

    I think this is an extremely important topic.
    To answer your question YES, I have experienced new symptoms in the past while on natural anti-fungals.

    If I could go back in time I probably would have never touched most of the natural anti-fungals knowing how toxic it is for my beneficial flora. Some natural anti-microbials such as oil of oregano, grapefruit seed extract, Clove oil, etc. are very toxic on our beneficials and further thinning out our bacterial diversity in the gut.

    Crippling the guts bacterial diversity will lead to new food sensitives, allergies, and autoimmunity. Further benefiting the yeast that may be present.

    Specific species of bacteria are needed for a proper functioning immune system, I believe the majority of “Natural” anti-fungals are toxic to gut flora. The very thing needed for the aggressive and suppressive parts of our immune system.

    While some anti-fungals may kill or inhibit certain species of susceptible yeast, Please need to USE CAUTION with these.

    -D

    I really appreciate that you weighed-in here,Danny.
    Your perspective differs from mine, but I think what you had to say was really important.
    Im with you,in that if I could go back in time, I would have begun this much differently.

    Have you experienced specific foods or vitamins keeping/reverting the candida to its yeast-overgrowth form so that it easier to deal with? (not sure how else to describe that?)

    Im not sure how anyone could scientifically measure this to know that is an accurate description of what is happening to them, but I am noticing differences and hope to hear more people talk about it if they have considered that themselves.

    While these unnatural doses of natural things may kill candida, I have read where candida in yeast form is much easier to handle than when it goes rooting and deliberately changing the environment based on what we have ingested to kill it.
    This mirrors my experience exactly, do you notice any similarities?

    #116738

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    Well to answer your question, some people are worse off after taking antifungals. Some people develop auto-immune responses to the antifungals and have to alter their treatment. I am not experienced enough to know what these people should do in these situations and usually tell them to get professional help because something is messed up. There was a few forum members that got completely messed up after taking antifungals and they developed a completely seperate auto-immune disorder and basically freaked out and went down the tubes in their health and never returned.

    It was sad to see this happen and I think the main cause of this is they didn’t have a detox plan whatsoever. They were just taking antifungals without liver support (I did this too) and the toxins kept on re-circulating in the body and it just makes you feel awful. But some people have other undiagnosed conditions such as thyroid or liver health problems and they develop panic attacks, emotional problems, anxiety, etc after antifungal use. This is when you should tell yourself that you have a serious health problem and that the self treatment isn’t working.

    I never suggest self treatment in general (anymore) and try to get everyone pointed towards professional help because there are a wide variety of complications that can develop. In other words, I feel that everyone needs their own specific plan to treat yeast and for some, this might not involve harsh antifungals but more gentle ones.

    -raster

    #116740

    Vegan Catlady
    Member
    Topics: 34
    Replies: 626

    raster;55259 wrote: Well to answer your question, some people are worse off after taking antifungals. Some people develop auto-immune responses to the antifungals and have to alter their treatment. I am not experienced enough to know what these people should do in these situations and usually tell them to get professional help because something is messed up. There was a few forum members that got completely messed up after taking antifungals and they developed a completely seperate auto-immune disorder and basically freaked out and went down the tubes in their health and never returned.

    It was sad to see this happen and I think the main cause of this is they didn’t have a detox plan whatsoever. They were just taking antifungals without liver support (I did this too) and the toxins kept on re-circulating in the body and it just makes you feel awful. But some people have other undiagnosed conditions such as thyroid or liver health problems and they develop panic attacks, emotional problems, anxiety, etc after antifungal use. This is when you should tell yourself that you have a serious health problem and that the self treatment isn’t working.

    I never suggest self treatment in general (anymore) and try to get everyone pointed towards professional help because there are a wide variety of complications that can develop. In other words, I feel that everyone needs their own specific plan to treat yeast and for some, this might not involve harsh antifungals but more gentle ones.

    -raster

    I hope we are moving towards a time when seeing a naturopath is valued in the eyes of insurance the way western medicine is. We should have the right to see the people we feel is in our best interest.

    I hear you when you say individuals should be in the hands of someone who practices health for a living, I just dont know too many people who can afford it in Florida (mostly because they have exhausted funds and patience with traditional docs, and then they found this forum).

    #116742

    Danny33
    Member
    Topics: 25
    Replies: 362

    Vegan Catlady;55257 wrote:

    VC,

    I think this is an extremely important topic.
    To answer your question YES, I have experienced new symptoms in the past while on natural anti-fungals.

    If I could go back in time I probably would have never touched most of the natural anti-fungals knowing how toxic it is for my beneficial flora. Some natural anti-microbials such as oil of oregano, grapefruit seed extract, Clove oil, etc. are very toxic on our beneficials and further thinning out our bacterial diversity in the gut.

    Crippling the guts bacterial diversity will lead to new food sensitives, allergies, and autoimmunity. Further benefiting the yeast that may be present.

    Specific species of bacteria are needed for a proper functioning immune system, I believe the majority of “Natural” anti-fungals are toxic to gut flora. The very thing needed for the aggressive and suppressive parts of our immune system.

    While some anti-fungals may kill or inhibit certain species of susceptible yeast, Please need to USE CAUTION with these.

    -D

    I really appreciate that you weighed-in here,Danny.
    Your perspective differs from mine, but I think what you had to say was really important.
    Im with you,in that if I could go back in time, I would have begun this much differently.

    Have you experienced specific foods or vitamins keeping/reverting the candida to its yeast-overgrowth form so that it easier to deal with? (not sure how else to describe that?)

    Im not sure how anyone could scientifically measure this to know that is an accurate description of what is happening to them, but I am noticing differences and hope to hear more people talk about it if they have considered that themselves.

    While these unnatural doses of natural things may kill candida, I have read where candida in yeast form is much easier to handle than when it goes rooting and deliberately changing the environment based on what we have ingested to kill it.
    This mirrors my experience exactly, do you notice any similarities?

    Not all species of Candida “morph”. I believe only albicans does this, not Tropicalis, Glabrata, etc.
    Yes, I have heard the concept that anti-fungals can drive yeast deeper into the cells making it harder to treat. I can’t validate that.

    What makes more sense to me is anti-fungals such as Oil of Oregano is nuking gut flora meanwhile the present yeast maybe resistant to the oregano. It would give more room for yeast to thrive and exacerbate symptoms such as new food sensitivities, environmental allergies, etc.

    Before starting anti-fungals I could tolerate many foods then that I am highly sensitive now.
    I confirmed Wheat/Gluten, Jalapenos, and Egg sensitivities via blood tests. The smallest amount causes me BAD diarrhea, stomach aches, etc.

    Re-inoculating the specific species of flora that digests eggs would eventually cure my egg sensitivities. Re-inoculating with yeast present is the hard part. A healthy person has 200ish species of bacteria, cut that in half by high dose broad spectrum anti-biotics and you have a serious problem.

    I’m not telling anybody to drop their anti-fungals but if your yeast is resistant to your current anti-fungal you might be really doing real damage to the friendly little soldiers in your intestines.

    -D

    #116812

    jameskep
    Participant
    Topics: 25
    Replies: 220

    Going on a all fat and protein diet with no sugars or carbs caused my candida to go fungal more than anything. I think the reason being is that fungus is more designed for the break down of fats/protein, whereas candida in its yeast form is more designed for the break down of carbs and simple sugars.

    #116816

    Vegan Catlady
    Member
    Topics: 34
    Replies: 626

    jameskep;55333 wrote: Going on a all fat and protein diet with no sugars or carbs caused my candida to go fungal more than anything. I think the reason being is that fungus is more designed for the break down of fats/protein, whereas candida in its yeast form is more designed for the break down of carbs and simple sugars.

    I think your probably spot-on there, and that was my experience as well.

    The first time I had bad candida, I didnt know it, and my body (although I suffered,lol)eventually handled it within 8 months, no treatment.
    I ate whatever went down ok without triggering my “GERD” (thats was a bs diagnosis)and followed no specific diet except whatever didnt cause my throat to close.

    One weird thing though…I ate lots of calcium antacids.
    While I understand that is a terrible thing to do when candida is turning off your stomach acid, I think it alkalized my system and kept the candida from going fungal.

    Its just a theory, but makes sense because I healed in spite of all those tums.

Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)

The topic ‘Antifungals that cause yeast overgrowth to become virulent fungal infections’ is closed to new replies.