9 Weeks – Rotate antifungals or not? Able? Questions and update.

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This topic contains 4 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  TheChosenOne 5 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #110448

    SueinOz
    Member
    Topics: 12
    Replies: 24

    Hi there,

    I’ve been on the diet for a full 8 weeks now. I’m doing everything suggested with SF722, oregano oil, Pau D’arco tea, coconut oil, garlic… as my antifungals.

    The protocol says to rotate certain ones every two weeks,”otherwise the Candida Albicans may adapt to one that’s used for an extended period”

    But Dvjorge has a post which says: Not to rotate. Able has commented with his experience which seems to agree with Dvjorge, so I am confused now!

    If I understand – Dvjorge said to only rotate them to find out which one works at killing off candida for you, then stay on the one that works; because if you rotate all the time you will find that when going back to an antifungal after a couple of weeks off it, the Candida will have now become resistant to it.

    Can you clear this up for me?

    Thanks.

    I’m still suffering my symptoms of fuzzy, dizzy head, blocked sticky nose etc.
    Nose has blocked feeling and sticky, but acute sense of smell, with sometimes a runny nose instead, stuff in throat.
    Bloating improved with Betaine HCl. Swedish Bitters give me tongue sores. Need to get a bit more coconut oil down – taste’s awful but I’m doing 9 spoons a day.

    Oregano oil, lemon water, coconut oil, and Mega Flora first thing makes me feel nauseous and one morning had severe stomach cramps and diarrhea too, next morning had exactly the same things and same breakfast and had no symptoms at all!

    Confused again? Any ideas what is going on?

    Still confused whether I have die off or just headache from tired, late shift and bad sleep. I really don’t have any die-off flu type symptoms in general. Maybe twice in 8 weeks – since the initial week, which had a bit more flu like stuff.Should I have more die off? I take Silymarin daily which has some Molybdenum with it. Only take the Mb itself if I think I have die off.

    If you could answer a few of my questions I would really appreciate it. I’ve been busy with a 2 week school, and now a new job, so no time to ask before. Hope I haven’t been doing something wrong for the last 3 or 4 weeks.

    Sue.

    dvjorge’s post:

    Topic: Rotating Antifungals !! Why we SHOULDN’T do it. Go to last post
    dvjorge Offline Posted: Friday, July 13, 2012 11:59:46 PM
    Hi all,
    This is a topic I brought to this forum since I began to post here some months ago. I have seen how this consideration hasn’t been a real concern for many people and others ignore it.

    I am bringing it again since there are new people posting and reading in this forum every day. I will give you and explanation and a mycology test report sample. Do your own conclusions.

    Antibiotics has been used successfully by medicine in a rotation mode. There are some important differences between antibiotics and antifungals that allow the first to be used in this way. Most antibiotics are broad spectrum bactericidal, meaning they KILL bacteria totally. Bacteria are a lot more sensitive than fungus to the antimicrobial agents. MDs rotate antibiotics with a sensitivity test result on hand but never randomly .

    Unlikely to the antibiotics, most antifungals are FUNGISTATIC, meaning they don’t kill the fungus but inhibit the growth. Fungus are also resistant by nature. These are disadvantage of the antifungals compared to the antibiotics. MDs don’t rotate antifungals treating resistant yeast infection but increase the dosage to maximum tolerable levels and combine therapies. This mean the use of several synergistic agents at the same time.

    Scientists have proved that microbes mutate at a rate of around 1 in a million without to be exposed to antimicrobial agents. This means that there always be some change in their DNA that may create resistance, you can not avoid it. Usually, these mutants are killed with a high enough dose of one effective antimicrobial. Mutation in microbes can not be prevented.

    Why you shouldn’t rotate the antifungals ??

    I am going to present the typical case of a candida sufferer who is seeking for help in the web. That person is advised to go to the natural pharmacy and buy GSE, Oregano Oil, Caprylic Acid, Olive Leaf Extract, or any other.

    Immediately we do it, trust me I did it. Here is the problem we don’t know if the yeast strain that is affecting us is sensitive to oregano oil, Sf-722, or what we get in the pharmacy. Then, we go home and begin the treatment. If we are lucky, we start with one that is effective to the yeast strain is affecting us, the weakest candida cells begin to die and the cycle continue. But, how we were advised to rotate the antifungals, we stop it, and begin the new antifungal in the rotation. If this time, we weren’t lucky and got one that doesn’t offer any activity against the fungus is infecting us, (this is a gambling game) we are in troubles.
    What is going to happen ??
    The inhibition activity stops, then, the SURVIVORS, the strongest ones that weren’t killed during the first round, begin to multiply and recover. They are now stronger than before and harder to kill.
    Doing it without a susceptibility test on hand is a crazy idea and really promotes resistance to multiples antifungals. At the end, we will be left with a yeast infection resistant to multiples antifungal agents.

    I don’t want that you trust my words. What I want is you think about it. I am giving you information that help to conclude by yourself. This is the kind information I want to post.

    I have read many medical articles linked to candida and antifungal drugs. I haven’t found only one where antifungal rotation be documented as a technic to avoid resistance strains. Please, if you find one, bring it to here. I am a person that can change my mind in minutes if I can see I am wrong.

    I don’t know where the information of rotating antifungal is coming from in the web.

    This is the most important. I am giving you a MYCOLOGY SAMPLE REPORT TEST from METAMETRIX, the most technological advanced LAB in US.

    Go to the sensitivity chapter and look how the sensitivity varies between natural and Rx antifungals.

    Since no everyone has access to a sensitivity specialized test, what I find more logic is to STICK with the antifungal you notice you are progressing. Don’t stop it. Then add another more, and look for more progress, if not, stop it and add another until you see that they are working and you getting better.

    I hope this help you to make good decisions.

    Jorge.

    Able’s response:

    Offline Able900 #3 Posted : Saturday, July 14, 2012 3:36:32 AM

    MULTI-QUOTE
    Able900
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    My personal experience:

    By rotating the antifungals, I discovered which ones caused the worse die-off experience. The oil of oregano and virgin coconut oil were by far the worse for me; therefore, after the rotation was completed I went directly back to the oil of oregano and coconut oil. I discovered that when rotating these, the die-off would return with full force making me ill for up to 24 hours each time I restarted either of the two. The same thing happened each time I tried to eat rutabaga. My conclusion was that I should concentrate on these three antifungals. Eventually I continued coconut oil on a daily basis and used the oil of oregano at two-week intervals and eating rutabaga occasionally.

    Obviously, something worked for me; I can say for certainty that these antifungals did not hinder my progress in any way, and considering the intense die-off symptoms that continued to return for a long period of time with these, I can only conclude that they were destroying the Candida.

    Able
    Edited by user Sunday, July 15, 2012 6:20:49 AM | Reason: Not specified

    #110451

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1368

    Combining antifungals are the best way to treat candida. As you said, randomly rotation is risky since you may chose one that doesn’t have any activity against the strain is affecting you. During the time you take one with low or no activity, candida colonies will re-growth and may develop resistance since the survivor cells are what are genetically stronger.

    If some antifungal is working, keep it. Then add another one. You may rotate the second one if you wish but never what you know is giving you die-off reaction. If the second one increases your symptoms, then, don’t rotate that one either.!

    Hope this help !

    Jorge.

    #110491

    SueinOz
    Member
    Topics: 12
    Replies: 24

    Brilliant!
    Thanks. Your advice is top of my list!! All things technical…
    Sue.

    #110522

    SueinOz
    Member
    Topics: 12
    Replies: 24

    Hi all,
    I’m happy with the anti-fungal advice. Thanks Dvjorge. I now have confidence in what I am doing there.
    Any chance anyone can answer my other couple of questions?

    Thanks
    Sue

    #110525

    TheChosenOne
    Participant
    Topics: 34
    Replies: 410

    dvjorge;48972 wrote: Combining antifungals are the best way to treat candida. As you said, randomly rotation is risky since you may chose one that doesn’t have any activity against the strain is affecting you. During the time you take one with low or no activity, candida colonies will re-growth and may develop resistance since the survivor cells are what are genetically stronger.

    If some antifungal is working, keep it. Then add another one. You may rotate the second one if you wish but never what you know is giving you die-off reaction. If the second one increases your symptoms, then, don’t rotate that one either.!

    Hope this help !

    Jorge.

    This is brilliant! Thanks for this.

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