4 Months in – Worse than before the diet.

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This topic contains 47 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by  Cheesey 6 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #104211

    Cheesey
    Member
    Topics: 37
    Replies: 245

    I wish I had never started this thing. How is it possible that I am still worse than before starting the diet?

    I was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome a couple of days ago. I had post-viral fatigue as a result of a virus I caught back in July 2012. Throughout the remainder of 2012 I was still able to work, run and ride my bike. I went on the diet at the start of January and became bedridden for a long while. I am now up and about at least (not able to walk very far or work) but my symptoms are so variable my quality of life has significantly diminished.

    I am honestly losing faith in this whole project. I can’t see that it has benefited, or will benefit, my health. The CFS specialist recognises that I am much improved compared to a few months ago when I initially started the diet. But thinks this is a tentative recovery that we need to be very careful with. I can’t see that this diet is going to lessen my fatigue or other symptoms.

    If I take a single oil of oregano capsule I become very spaced out and get a seriously weird feeling. If I then eat anything antifungal in my diet I start slipping into a low mood, get bad anxiety, my throat swells up, I get diarrhoea, dizziness and an increase in fatigue. I’m amazed that after 4 months of ‘killing candida’ using diet, natural anti-fungals and probiotics I am still so prone to die-off.

    I am not 100% on the strict forum diet but I am not far off. My deviations would be that I eat brown rice perhaps once per week and also eat meat (chicken and fish) at least 5 days a week.

    At this stage I feel that this diet is going to cause my post-viral fatigue to become a seriously long term chronic fatigue that will prevent me from working, being in education, or pursuing any activities I previously found to be enjoyable or meaningful. It has beaten me down and made me a shell of what I was. Some days I don’t feel able to leave the house. How can that possibly be a healing process?

    #104214

    kjones02
    Participant
    Topics: 79
    Replies: 315

    Oh Cheesey, I am so sorry that you feel awful! I get very frustrated, too. My energy has been up a bit lately, but I have those moments, too about the diet for me. I try to take probiotics, anti-fungals, and I can sometimes run into major bloating, gas, and diarrhea mode. I can try to go, but I can’t most the time. Maybe it is due to the fact of no colon, too. Also, my intestines start rumbling so much; I hate it!!

    That is why I contacted raster’s naturopath because I felt that I needed a very educated person to help me handle this better to find a balance in my life, so I can start doing things again.

    I don’t know what else to say because I always have lots of questions myself most the time. I can’t seem to answer any either.

    I know it is not recommended on this forum to take huge doses of certain vitamins, but I can’t live without starting my morning with taking some extra b12 and b-vitamins. I am deficient in iron and b-levels, so I think I have to take them. I take a co-enzyme form one that I feel is better absorbed into my body with breakfast; it says to take 2, but I only take 1. I know probiotics produce b-vitamins, but I really need this. It helps very much!! I guess that is just a thought.

    Oh, one other thought, have you tried sweating out some toxins! Yes, I get worried about the skin exposure, but I tan sometimes, gets me extra vitamin D, and then I can sweat. It helps so much!!

    #104221

    Cheesey
    Member
    Topics: 37
    Replies: 245

    I think I have reached the decision that I am going to stop taking antifungals, at least for the time being.

    It appears to me that I need to restore some energy and balance. I think a hiatus from directly battling candida is the best way to do that. I will continue with my probiotics, diet and vitamins, however I don’t see that antifungals are helping me to become healthy at the moment. In order to steady myself and help myself recovery from other conditions I have in addition to candida I need to leave my body some space to catch up with itself.

    Whilst die-off is a healing process, restoring energy and feeling good is also a healing process. I think that balance has been overlooked in favour of beating down on what I have perceived to be the only enemy.

    kjones, I have sweated out some toxins in the past. But living in the North of England, sunshine isn’t really a viable option for doing that 🙂 I tend to use baths, though sometimes I feel that if the bath is too hot that actually makes me feel worse!

    #104222

    kjones02
    Participant
    Topics: 79
    Replies: 315

    As far as anti-fungals for me, I slowed down, and I started sf722 this week. I have taken 2 the past couple nights, Sunday and Monday I did 1, but I am trying monitor my reactions; plus, I just take it at supper time, and then my probiotic before bed. I am trying not to take too many things during the day besides things that support me, moly, milk thistle, ashwangda because I got to function. Yes, it is hard, and I am hoping to get some good advice next week.

    I did find this one thing because I noticed it gave me some energy, but I just can’t do milk besides goat yogurt, even don’t like drinking goat milk, just the yogurt maybe because of the good bacteria; good breakfast!

    It should have lactoferrin properties, but no milk. Read about it on curezone, hoping to get it soon and help with digestion like l-glutamine does; little cheaper than xyomegen igg 2000 df.

    http://www.amazon.com/Whole-Health-Center-Immuni-T-Vegetable/dp/B00B28Z0FY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1368099364&sr=8-2&keywords=xymogen+igg+2000+df

    #104223

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1369

    Cheesey;42714 wrote: I wish I had never started this thing. How is it possible that I am still worse than before starting the diet?

    I was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome a couple of days ago. I had post-viral fatigue as a result of a virus I caught back in July 2012. Throughout the remainder of 2012 I was still able to work, run and ride my bike. I went on the diet at the start of January and became bedridden for a long while. I am now up and about at least (not able to walk very far or work) but my symptoms are so variable my quality of life has significantly diminished.

    I am honestly losing faith in this whole project. I can’t see that it has benefited, or will benefit, my health. The CFS specialist recognises that I am much improved compared to a few months ago when I initially started the diet. But thinks this is a tentative recovery that we need to be very careful with. I can’t see that this diet is going to lessen my fatigue or other symptoms.

    If I take a single oil of oregano capsule I become very spaced out and get a seriously weird feeling. If I then eat anything antifungal in my diet I start slipping into a low mood, get bad anxiety, my throat swells up, I get diarrhoea, dizziness and an increase in fatigue. I’m amazed that after 4 months of ‘killing candida’ using diet, natural anti-fungals and probiotics I am still so prone to die-off.

    I am not 100% on the strict forum diet but I am not far off. My deviations would be that I eat brown rice perhaps once per week and also eat meat (chicken and fish) at least 5 days a week.

    At this stage I feel that this diet is going to cause my post-viral fatigue to become a seriously long term chronic fatigue that will prevent me from working, being in education, or pursuing any activities I previously found to be enjoyable or meaningful. It has beaten me down and made me a shell of what I was. Some days I don’t feel able to leave the house. How can that possibly be a healing process?

    The die-off don’t end because you are feeding and killing, feeding and killing in a vicious circle. It happened to me more than 1 year. When the case is severe, I assume your is because what you describe, you need to tie it up as much as possible. I am telling you that even the diet they suggests here is open for a severe case. A severe case has to go with green vegetables, fish, eggs, some chickens, and tons of coconut oil, olive oil, and some almonds to keep the sugar levels and the energy.

    To overcome this syndrome is nothing easy. It is a hard challenging testing your endurance.

    Another thing, taking natural substances that have antifungal properties is the same as taking antibiotics and antifungals at the same time. The antibiotics have to stop in any form in order to recover. People see the results taking oregano oil, gse, caprylic acid, etc. Yes, the fungal colonies diminishes but you never give a chance to the antagonistic flora to recover.

    The secret is to take an antifungal that don’t harm the flora and keep candida very low to give chance to the lactic acid bacteria re-growth. This process needs some months. This is the reason why I advice Baker Yeast or S. Boulardii. Some people have done it with Rx antifungal dealing with side effects.

    A restrictive diet plus high doses of baker yeast or s. boulardii including high enemas two times a week to clean the colon lumen should be enough to bring you to normal. However, it can not be done eating brown rice, quinoa, sweet potato, and even buckwheat in many cases.

    Jorge.

    #104224

    Cheesey
    Member
    Topics: 37
    Replies: 245

    Thank you for your reply, Jorge.

    I had stopped taking the S. Boulardii because it wasn’t clear that it was doing anything. This was reinforced by my move back to Oregano as I experienced, once again, significantly bad die-off. Perhaps this may have been because I did not leave a gap between finishing S. Boulardii and taking oil of oregano. I simply don’t know.

    There are just so many things pulling me one way or another. How can I sort through all the information out there? How do I have any idea what the right course is for me?

    This is just so incredibly frustrating. I think I am going to take a week of very carefully looking after myself and mindfulness meditation before I take any decisive direction regarding dietary change or antifungals.

    #104228

    dvjorge
    Participant
    Topics: 283
    Replies: 1369

    Cheesey;42727 wrote: Thank you for your reply, Jorge.

    I had stopped taking the S. Boulardii because it wasn’t clear that it was doing anything. This was reinforced by my move back to Oregano as I experienced, once again, significantly bad die-off. Perhaps this may have been because I did not leave a gap between finishing S. Boulardii and taking oil of oregano. I simply don’t know.

    There are just so many things pulling me one way or another. How can I sort through all the information out there? How do I have any idea what the right course is for me?

    This is just so incredibly frustrating. I think I am going to take a week of very carefully looking after myself and mindfulness meditation before I take any decisive direction regarding dietary change or antifungals.

    I think that you may need to continue with Oregano Oil and other antifungal substances even with their antibacterial activity until the candida colonies be more controlled and reduced. However, there will be a point where you must stop those substances in order to allow the lactic acid flora to re-growth. That is a critical point where you need to keep the fungus inhibited with something that don’t affect the flora. I will say a diet plus S.Boulardii. Then, the intestinal balance may regain terrain slowly.

    You need to decide yourself the curse.

    Jorge.

    #104229

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    You need to go with the antifungals hard so that the candida numbers lessen quickly allowing for a recovery. If you do low doses for a long period of time, this won’t really do much. Additionally, your liver enzymes could be elevated and your liver could be slightly damaged which is the organ most affected by die-off toxins. If you were to heal this organ before proceeding on taking antifungals again, you likely won’t have as bad of a time.

    Also SF722 is much more gentle on the body and the die-off isn’t as bad with SF722.

    I also support dvjorge’s statement that you shouldn’t feed the candida and then kill it over and over. I don’t think the brown rice is that bad but the quinoa and potatoes could be the real culprit.

    Most forum members don’t feel like they are making progress until they start the strict diet.

    -raster

    #104231

    Cheesey
    Member
    Topics: 37
    Replies: 245

    raster;42732 wrote: You need to go with the antifungals hard so that the candida numbers lessen quickly allowing for a recovery. If you do low doses for a long period of time, this won’t really do much. Additionally, your liver enzymes could be elevated and your liver could be slightly damaged which is the organ most affected by die-off toxins. If you were to heal this organ before proceeding on taking antifungals again, you likely won’t have as bad of a time.

    Also SF722 is much more gentle on the body and the die-off isn’t as bad with SF722.

    I also support dvjorge’s statement that you shouldn’t feed the candida and then kill it over and over. I don’t think the brown rice is that bad but the quinoa and potatoes could be the real culprit.

    Most forum members don’t feel like they are making progress until they start the strict diet.

    -raster

    I do very occasionally eat quinoa but I never eat potatoes! I am very close to the forum diet, the only difference being the occasional brown rice and more regular consumption of meat than is recommended. I have an extremely low BMI so I feel I need to generally get meat in there.

    I might go with the SF722 in the long run, then. Is that a general antimicrobial? (i.e. will it kill off any good-guys that are trying to establish themselves in there?). My ND wants me to change to a CFS protocol which includes S. Boulardii, however, so this is also a possibility.

    For the time being I think I am going to stick to having some time off any regular antifungal supplementation, even if it is only for a short period of time. I physically and mentally need a bit of respite before anymore onslaught can begin.

    Thank you for your response.

    #104232

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    As far as I understand, SF722 does not destroy beneficial gut flora…

    -raster

    #104233

    mrs.candida
    Member
    Topics: 53
    Replies: 452

    Cheesy,
    If you come to the conclusion that you want to move forward with the fungal die off, but are worried about the side effects. I would recommend activated charcoal to get through the tough die off.

    One cool thing that the S.Boulardii did for me was get rid of my ingrown toenail. I have had for as long as I can remember and I always suspected that it was yeast related because it would flare up if I ate too much sugar. I haven’t had a flare up since xmas. While I was taking S.Boulardii it began to itch like crazy, it drove me nuts there was no way to itch under my toenail. Soon enough it cleared up and I’ve not felt anything since.

    #104247

    alexalgebra
    Member
    Topics: 41
    Replies: 643

    Well, just speaking from my own personal experience, here’s what I attribute my success to:

    1. Following the diet and protocol TO THE LETTER
    2. Eating vegetarian only
    3. Using mainly capryllic acid and coconut oil as my antifungals (they don’t kill bacteria), aside from the first couple of weeks where I used a mix with some garlic and gse, and now SF722
    4. Kefir and probiotics
    5. Ensuring that my liver was protected with milk thistle and molybdenum
    6. Not pushing myself too hard (this is where I fucked up and had backsliding that cost me literally 2 mos of treatment) and listening when my body says STOPPPP!!!
    7. Trying to keep a positive attitude and be grateful for this opportunity to become healthy instead of feeling resentful that I can’t eat shitgarbage all day long like the rest of the world
    8. SUNSHINE!!! I live in Oregon so this is hard to come by, but when it does, I get out in it, and also I took a trip to California in the middle of the winter that really helped. I can’t express enough, honestly, how much being in warm, sunny weather improves my health to the point where last night, I asked my boyfriend in all seriousness if he would consider relocating to California some time. (He’ll “think about it.”)
    9. Game nights – seriously, it’s a great social activity that doesn’t require too much energy and does not have to revolve around drinking or eating
    10. Regular, but non-exerting, exercise, like yoga and slow walks or hikes
    11. Mourning the loss of being carefree and finding someone that I could cry to about it a few times (okay, more like 10 or 15 times, LOL) that would listen and tell me it would be okay

    I am finally feeling pretty damn good AGAIN after 2 months of basically repeating my whole process thanks to over-extending myself for a weekend and not listening to my body. (I’ve been at it for just under 5 mos total.)

    I can also say that I did get worse for awhile, and then I got better, and then I got worse, and then I got better, and then I got a lot worse, and then I got a lot better…but staying consistent throughout helped me push through. The first month was by far the worst, though, and it was really a struggle, but I was literally going to die if I didn’t get rid of this shit, so I just pushed through it.

    #104296

    Cheesey
    Member
    Topics: 37
    Replies: 245

    Thanks for the tip, Mrs. C. I will certainly look into that.

    Alex, I’m pleased to hear you’re doing so well. I too am experiencing those ups and downs that you speak of (hence this thread). I think a lot of that, as you say, is dependent on me not properly listening to my body. I’ve stopped taking the oil of oregano and will not be returning to that again. I just can’t see the benefit in it if it kills beneficial bacteria. There appears to be too many battles going on in my body without me actively ingesting something that destroys good bacteria.

    To add to your list, I think a great thing to do is meditate. Not only does meditation decrease stress and increase acceptance, it actively boosts the immune system. Moreover, it helps to give me that insight I need in order to effectively listen to my own body. I’ve been significantly upping my meditation recently and establishing a regular practice.

    I really don’t mind that I’m not eating crap anymore. It’s just frustrating when I can’t go out for dinner with my girlfriend. Although I think its perhaps good from a financial perspective 🙂

    I think I am still experiencing quite a bit of die-off today and yesterday, despite quitting the oregano. I think I have now narrowed this down to a change in kefir. I have just changed from 24 hour fermentation to 48 hours. I am rotating two batches on a daily basis to ensure that I can get my hit each night before bed (nothing better than a big glass of kefir and an episode of breaking bad). However, I think it is hitting me hard! I never would have thought kefir could have such a significant die-off effect, but my tell-tale die-off signs are persisting with feeling spaced out, being exhausted and having frothy urine! I hadn’t realised kefir contains caproic, caprylic, and capric acid, along with S Cerevisiae and a number of other candida-fighting effects such as the ability to increase the gut PH.

    #104303

    raster
    Participant
    Topics: 104
    Replies: 6838

    I am going to say this so that you could save yourself time and/or effort but you should always consult a professional if things get too difficult.

    -raster

    #104322

    goingnatural
    Member
    Topics: 38
    Replies: 249

    Piggybacking on Raster’s comment. You really should be checking other systems (with a doctor) Candida can impact your adrenals (which would be adding to your chronic fatigue) and your hormone levels (like Testosterone) and your Thyroid, etc,. etc,.

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