- December 16, 2011 at 3:30 pm #69201
So far you haven’t shared anything I didn’t already know, Jorge. I even know that you’re incorrect about beneficial bacteria not being enough to cure Candida when taken in any form and fed properly following the diet protocol we advocate on the forum. I know this because I, among others who have come and gone from this site have proved it.
Sir, you still haven’t answered the only question I asked of you.
AbleDecember 16, 2011 at 5:48 pm #69209
If you know I am incorrect about friendly bacteria curing candida, it is ok.
I don’t have any problem about that. What I won’t do is to argue against you or anybody else. I joined this forum to read, learn , and help. I didn’t come here to imposer anything. I am always open to hear and share to reach a “cure”. Nothing else is more important for me.
Jorge.December 17, 2011 at 9:13 pm #69247
dvjorge wrote: If you know I am incorrect about friendly bacteria curing candida, it is ok. I don’t have any problem about that. What I won’t do is to argue against you or anybody else. I joined this forum to read, learn , and help. I didn’t come here to imposer anything.
I am always open to hear and share to reach a “cure”. Nothing else is more important for me.
I understand that, Jorge, nothing is any more important for me than to help these good people cure the debilitating infestation which is making them so miserable. There is little that makes me as happy as when I read another post from a member telling me how much our protocol has helped them to feel better and to get on with their life.
So when you come onto the site and immediately begin telling the members who are following the protocol that they’re doing it all wrong (more or less this is what you’ve done), then yes, I will debate you on that call all day and all night because I cannot stand quietly by and watch you take away the hope that they have to finally cure their long-standing infestations – not when I have seen not only myself heal from the protocol, but many others over the past seven months as well.
I wouldn’t have a problem with the information you’ve shared with us so far if you would tell the whole story as I explained in the post concerning magnesium. But you’re only giving them the information that you want them to have and leaving out the details. Another example concerns the post about probiotics not being helpful on a long term basis. Again, if you would bother to consider and explain why the commercial probiotics are so important during a Candida albicans infestation when it’s destroying the human body with toxins even though there is only a slim chance that these bacteria will colonize long term, then it would be much more helpful as well as hope-giving for the people reading. Instead, I have to come along behind you and clean up your mess so to speak by explaining the details which you conveniently leave out of your warped stories.
The “story behind the story” of the probiotics is this:
The commercial probiotics are used for the first six months to a year and often longer in order to allow the bacteria obtained from foods such as sauerkraut, homemade kefir and yogurt to colonize in the intestines. Full colonization during any illness, especially a fungal infection such as a Candida albicans infestation, takes many months; therefore the commercial probiotics are used as a stand-in for the actual colonization of bacteria which will eventually take place if the protocol is followed as explained. This means gradually incorporating fermented foods such as sauerkraut, homemade kefir and yogurt into the diet on a daily basis along with strong prebiotics which will feed the flora and allow them to multiply and colonize. Is that explanation acceptable for you, Jorge?
AbleDecember 17, 2011 at 11:14 pm #69248
You are doing what you do great. Only the intention to help is enough. You can be sure I won’t post anymore contradicting anything I read here. I didn’t joined this forum for that. I have had enough debates and confrontations about myths and stories about this syndrome in Curezone and the candida yahoo group I write. I apologize if my posts have made you feel bad.
I have read some posts in this forum and found things that contradict what I have learned about this syndrome so far. It doesn’t mean what you are advocating doesn’t work or doesn’t help. I have had to change many things during my learning curve about this problem, and guaranty you, I have made a lot of mistakes.
Anyway, regarding to probiotics, I will tell you I recognize the role of pharmaceutical probiotics offering benefits to the gut and many other body functions. I have used them a lot, specially when I began to battle my health problems. I have no doubt they can help but my own story tells me they aren’t the solution. Speaking about my personal case, I will tell you I believed I was cured 2 times after following intensive anticandida treatments. The second time, the relapse was after a very well planned protocol where probiotics and prebiotics were part. I have spent hundreds buying top market quality probiotics but no getting the results I was expecting. It wasn’t until I learned they don’t offer permanent colonization that I stopped use them. But later, I learned more, the bacterial species present in current probiotics aren’t the predominant bacterias in the gut microbiota ecology. They aren’t the main enterotypes that dominate the colon , and this can imply they aren’t the main antagonist bacterias to candida even when some of them have shown antifungal activity. At that point, my hope to recover the intestinal flora was totally lost. Even Wikipedia had an statement that said ” it looks like the human bacterial flora can not be recovered one time it is lost “. It was updated and later removed.
Going to the point, I have had 4 CDSA during the years. The first 3 were during a time where I took more than a liter of Kefir a day, cambucha, rejuvelac, massive doses of probiotics including Total Immune Booster, Primal Defense, Dr. Oshira, VSL-3, Flora Prime, PB-8, LGG, L. Reuteri, V-299, etc. Well, the first 3 CDSA never showed presence of benefical flora, but only a very low level of Bifidus. Then, during 2010, I began to research Fecal Transplants and HPI (have many papers about them and several professional protocols) Then, I did a DIY transplant at home using my daughter as a donor. End of the story, my 4 CDSA showed Lactobacillus 3+, E. Coli 3 +, and Bifidobactirium 4+. Still, I have an intestinal fungal overgrowth. So, my first belief blaming lack of friendly flora as responsible of an intestinal fungal overgrowth wasn’t demonstrated. Since that, I have read a lot about fecal transplants and believe it is the only way available so far to recover a human origin indigenous gut microbiota. It is the only demonstrated way so far that offer permanent colonization of the gut. I believe CRC is more linked to an immunologic problem than the bacterial flora. I have reasons to believe in it. Some of them are several articles written by the man who discovered this syndrome, Dr. Orian Truss.
Now you see why pharmaceutical probiotics aren’t my last cup of wine !
Jorge.December 17, 2011 at 11:23 pm #69249
I am leaving a link with the Main Bacterial Enterotypes found in the human gut. As you will notice, Lactobacillus and Bifidobacteriums don’t dominate the flora.January 17, 2012 at 7:24 pm #71065
ShellebrateMemberTopics: 0Replies: 1
Would you tell more about the fecal transplant? I have found following this regime and taking kefir very helpful, however it makes sense to me that lactobacillus types are not indigenous to human origin gut flora. Cheers.February 2, 2012 at 4:20 pm #72416
As far as fecal transplants, this relatively safe procedure may provide an answer or a partial answer to those of us suffering with candida. A good freind of mine just had this procedure in a Rhode Island Hospital, and cured a stubborn case of C diff with it. Essentially it is like taking probiotics but at many many times the number. A stool sample is taken from a close family member (it is tested and should not be from someone who is suspected to have candida or any other gut issues), and some is then inserted into the recipient’s colon (this is a very rough description, don’t know the technical details. This results in repopulating the colon entirely of the recipient and I personally am about to go to the same Doctor to see if she will consider doing this on a person with candida and an intestinal parasite.
I have no idea if they will agree to try this on someone who doesn’t have C Diff, but I certainly plan to ask.
In the meantime, I’ll continue with the probiotics (which I believe are helpful), and the forum diet.February 2, 2012 at 4:29 pm #72417February 3, 2012 at 7:11 am #72454
One more quick comment on fecal transplants. Even if these transplants can be performed on individuals with candida, I believe there’s no way around curing candida without praticing the multi-faceted approach of diet anti-fungals and the other sensible elements outlined on the forum…there’s no quick fix, but perhaps fecal transplants may be one answer in the future to change the hostile environment in the colon even more efficiently than probiotics.February 5, 2012 at 10:13 am #72621
candida_sucksMemberTopics: 3Replies: 148
Able900 wrote: Research has shown that Candida albicans are efficient at utilizing certain nutrients and supplements, especially synthetic B vitamin supplements which are usually in multiple vitamins. If your multiple vitamins contain even one B vitamin,
I would stop it right away.
Perhaps this question is silly, but I’m not a biochemist:
You call out synthetic B vitamin supplements as being bad; are there any natural B vitamin supplements that are ok? Or are all B vitamins inside multi-vitamins considered synthetic because they are not from actual food?
I’ve seen some of your other posts where it seemed that your chief compaint about multi-vitamins was the fact that many had a poor balance of B-vitamins. So I checked the balance in mine and it looked ok — ranged from 100% to 167% in terms of % daily value. No crazy percentages in the thousands. SO I had thought that my multi-vitamin was ok, but after seeing this post of yours now I’m wondering again. Below is what my multi-vitamin contains. Is this helping the candida because of the B-vitamins? Do you think it is detrimental in any other way?
FOUR TABLETS SUPPLY:
Vitamin A (as retinyl palmitate and 75% as beta-carotene) 4,000 IU 80%
Vitamin C (as ascorbic acid and 13% as ascorbyl palmitate) 200 mg 333%
Vitamin D (as cholecalciferol) 800 IU 200%
Vitamin E (as d-alpha-tocopheryl succinate) 100 IU 333%
Thiamin (as thiamin pyrophosphate) 1.5 mg 100%
Riboflavin (as riboflavin-5-phosphate) 2 mg 118%
Niacin (as niacinamide and 20% as niacin**) 25 mg 125%
Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxal-5-phosphate) 2 mg 100%
Folate (as folic acid)*** 600 mcg 150%
Vitamin B12 (as cyanocobalamin) 10 mcg 167%
Biotin 500 mcg 167%
Pantothenic acid (as D-calcium pantothenate) 15 mg 150%
Calcium (50% from calcium glycerophosphate,
40% from raw bone, 10% from calcium orotate) 200 mg 20%
Phosphorus (72% from calcium glycerophosphate,
28% from raw bone) 107 mg 11%
Iodine [from kelp (Ascophyllum nodosum)] 150 mcg 100%
Magnesium (71% from magnesium glycinate, 17% from
magnesium aspartate, 12% from magnesium gluconate) 210 mg 53%
Zinc (as zinc monomethionine) 20 mg 133%
Selenium (as selenomethionine) 100 mcg 143%
Copper (as copper aspartate) 3 mg 150%
Manganese (as manganese aspartate) 3 mg 150%
Chromium (as chromium polynicotinate) 120 mcg 100%
Molybdenum (as sodium molybdate) 100 mcg 133%
Potassium (as potassium aspartate) 20 mg <1%
Coenzyme Q-10 5 mg *
L-Histidine (as L-histidine HCl) 20 mg *
L-Glutathione 40 mg *
L-Carnitine (as L-carnitine tartrate) 25 mg *
L-Methionine 100 mg *
L-Lysine HCl 100 mg *
L-Phenylalanine 50 mg *
L-Threonine 50 mg *
Taurine 100 mg *
Pantethine 15 mg *
Choline (as choline bitartrate) 50 mg *
Inositol 50 mg *
Vanadium (as BMOV) 40 mcg *
Boron (as calcium borogluconate) 3 mg *
Other ingredients: Calcium carbonate, dextrose, stearic acid, croscarmellose sodium, silica, magnesium stearate and pharmaceutical glaze.
This product contains no salt, artificial flavors, color, wheat, yeast, or milk derivatives.
**CAUTION: Transient flushing and feeling of warmth might be associated with the ingestion of niacin-containing products.
***The safe upper limit of daily intake is 1,000 mcg of folate.February 5, 2012 at 1:41 pm #72651
candida_sucks wrote: SO I had thought that my multi-vitamin was ok, but after seeing this post of yours now I’m wondering again. Below is what my multi-vitamin contains. Is this helping the candida because of the B-vitamins? Do you think it is detrimental in any other way?
You asked about natural sources of B vitamins. That would be kefir, yogurt, and probiotics, all of which will reestablish the flora in your system allowing the flora to produce the B vitamins in the amounts and types that are needed by your body.
The one you described also contains dextrose which is a simple sugar otherwise known as glucose.
AbleFebruary 5, 2012 at 2:08 pm #72667
I have chronic B12 deficiency, and have had it for years since returning from Mexico with Cryptosporidium. Are B12 shots a problem for candida sufferers and are oral B complex vitmains a problem, even if I ensure they contain no forbidden extra ingredients? Thanks again for all your time. LyndaFebruary 5, 2012 at 9:37 pm #72693
candida_sucksMemberTopics: 3Replies: 148
Able900 wrote: The one you described also contains dextrose which is a simple sugar otherwise known as glucose.
D’oh! Thanks, Able. Do you happen to know, in general, if the things listed on vitamin labels under “other ingredients” are present in large quantities? I’m just curious how much I’ve been feeding the candida all this time.
ThanksFebruary 6, 2012 at 5:37 pm #72779
I have chronic B12 deficiency, and have had it for years since returning from Mexico with Cryptosporidium. Are B12 shots a problem for candida sufferers…
I’ve never seen research concerning B vitamin shots along with Candida; but I would imagine that, if you know for a fact that you’re more deficient in 12 than others there would be a problem having the shots.
and are oral B complex vitmains a problem, even if I ensure they contain no forbidden extra ingredients?
Quality-wise, it’d be much more beneficial to obtain your B vitamins from kefir, Greek yogurt, and probiotics.
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