No prob man, just remember it’s up to you and your doc to decide what you want to do, I’m just providing information.
I just wrote a reply catlady but somehow when I hit post it got deleted so I’ll try to remember what I wrote:
Serum ascorbic acid levels were not associated with decreased serum vitamin B12 levels (or indicators of vitamin B12 deficiency), prevalence of kidney stones,
From the pioneers of the Urine Organic Acids Test(GPL)
A large study of more than 85,000 women found no relation betwen vitamin C intake and kidney stones (27). In addition, an evaluation of 100 children on the autistic spectrum at The Great Plains Laboratory revealed that there was nearly zero correlation between vitamin C and oxalates in the urine (Table 2). Megadoses (more than 100 mg/Kg body weight per day) of vitamin C were shown to markedly reduce autistic symptoms in a double blind placebo controlled study (28) so any restriction of vitamin C needs to be carefully weighed against its significant benefits.
http://jasn.asnjournals.org/content/10/4/840.abstract here is that study.
Dr. William McCormack, in the 1940’s, treated kidney stones by giving vitamin C. (1946)
Simon and Hudes (1999) concluded that a rise of 1.0 mg/deceliter of vitamin C in the blood is associated with a 28% drop in the appearance of kidney stones.
From Ascorbate: Lies, Myths and Half-truths-
The origins of this myth are not too obscure, but its persistence is a mystery. There is no conclusive clinical evidence that high intake of ascorbate is firmly linked to oxalate kidney stones or to large increases in urinary oxalate spillage. For most people, there is simply no significant connection: M.P. Lamden & G.A. Chrystowski (Proc Soc Exp Biol Med, 85:1, 190-192, Jan 1954), K. Schmidt et al (Am J Clin Nutr 34:3, 305-311, March 1981), F. Erden et al (Acta Vitamin Enzym 7:1-2, 123-130, 1985) reported either insignificant or very low increases in urinary oxalate after taking ascorbate.
There have been scattered, sparsely-reported anecdotes of unusual stone-formers (e.g. M.H. Briggs et al, Med J Australia 2:1, 48-49, 7 July 1973) whose urinary oxalate increased unusually when taking large amounts of ascorbic acid, and a few other reports of known stone-formers whose urinary oxalate dropped when ascorbate was stopped (e.g. D.A. Roth et al J.A.M.A., 237:8, 768, 21 Feb 1977). But these patients had a history of stones before taking ascorbate, and the studies did not rule out contributions of common dietary sources of oxalate (coffee, tea, beans, spinach, oranges etc.). The tenor of most such studies seems alarmist, apparently aimed at creating panic over the “dangers” of ascorbate.
From Clinical Guide to the Use of Vitamin C:
Lamden found that an ingestion of 9 grams of C/day resulted in oxalate spills of 68 mg. in the urine per 24 hours. Controls without C spilled 64 mg./24 hours. Not a big difference.
He says in all cases a stasis of urine flow “and a concentrated urine appear to be the chief physiological factors.” Oxalic acid precipitates out of solution only from a neutral or alkaline solution—pH 7 to pH 10. Urine pH in those consuming ten grams of Vitamin C daily is about 6. Even in diabetics who take this large amount of C (10 grams), the urinary oxalate excretion remains relatively unchanged. “Vitamin C is an excellent diuretic. No urinary stasis; no urine concentration. The ascorbic acid/kidney stone story is a myth.” One more bon mot: “Methylene will dissolve calcium oxalate stones, if the patient is given 65 mg orally two to three times a day,” he learned from Medical World News (Smith, M.J.V., M.D.: Dec. 4, 1970).
(90% of all stones are calcium stones. Calcium is soluble in acid media. Vitamin C acidifies the urine. Acid urine discourages the growth of bacteria. Although uric acid stones are theoretically possible with high doses of C and a low urinary pH, none have been reported.)
From Page 166, Section 184.108.40.206. Is the formation of calcium oxalate calculi a real hazard? :
…However, Klenner (1971), Poser (1972) and Hoffer (1973) have concluded from their wide experience over many years of prescribing multigram daily doses of ascorbic acid – when they noted no patients who suffered calcium oxalate stone formation – that such hazards are very remote. Also Takiguchi et al. (1966) found no significant increase in urinary oxalate excretion on administration of up to 2 g daily of ascorbic acid for up to 6 months. Murphy and Zelman (1965) also concluded after 3 years of investigation that the hazard of oxalate calcuil form is not significant
Thus, the basic argument that an increase in oxalate excretion in the urine, resulting from mega intake of vitamin C, is likely to be accompanied by the formation of calcium oxalate stones is not valid; rather the reverse because of the accompanying increased acidity and increase ascorbate concentration in the urine.
(a) increased acidity: Multigram administration of ascorbic acid is often recommended (McDonald and Murphy, 1959; Murphy and Zelman, 1965) for increased acidity of the urine which effect enhances bacteriostacis. Such acidity is exponentially effective in reducing calcium oxalate precipitation. This precipitation requires that the solubility product of [Ca++][C2C4] be exceeded. Oxalic acid is a dibasic acid, and its ionization takes place in two stages. However for the sake of simplicity we can write
H2C2O4 == 2 H+ + C2O4—and therefore [C2O4—][H+]2 / [H2C2O4] = K
Hence, increase in [H+] (the pH usually drops by about 0.5 to 1 pH unites) should have an adverse effect to the second power on the [C2O4—], and correspondingly decreases the probability of calcium oxalate precipitation. Indeed, acid urine is known to solubilze calcium salts thereby reducing the hazard of stone formation (Hockaday and Smith, 1963).
(b) Diuresis.* Stone formation requires static conditions when the initial minute nuclei, capable of passing through the fairly porous membranes of the kidney tissue, grow to large sizes. Diuresis by increasing urine flow obviates the urolithiasis. Increasingly larger intakes of ascorbic acid are known to result in corresponding increases in diuresis; some physicians recommend as much as 10 g daily as a diuretic (e.g. Klenner, 1971). Increasing diuresis should therefore inhibit correspondingly the probability of stone formation.
( c ) Increased ascorbate concentration: This results in increased complexing of the Ca++ thereby decreasing the free Ca++. This decrease the probability of the solubility product of calcium oxalate being exceeded.
Hence increase ascorbic acid intake, although resulting in some increase in oxalic acid excretion in the urine, is hardly likely to increase the probability of the formation of calcium oxalate calcuil.
Linus in the book HOW TO LIVE LONGER AND FEEL BETTER (Pauling, 1986) points out the the pH of the urine can determine which type of stones form. They don’t form in neutral urine. The most common stones form in alkaline urine, and ascorbic acid should be taken to help turn the urine more acidic and prevent these stones.
Futhermore if anyone is worried about stones forming because of an acidic environment(which was shown above to be false) you can take sodium ascorbate instead of ascorbic acid.