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Offline dvjorge  
#1 Posted : Friday, February 08, 2013 7:17:00 PM(UTC)
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Hi guys,
This is an idea that came to my mind. I would like that you share with me your opinion about it.
I have many reasons to believe S. Boulardii is very antagonistic to Candida Albicans, and also have many properties that benefit the colon.

The hardest place to eradicate the infection is the colon, specially the cecum, transverse colon, and end of the small bowel.

Anyway, what do you think ??

Jorge.
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Offline mygutleaks  
#2 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 9:22:18 AM(UTC)
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i don't think it's a good idea. It's probably not necessary because S Boulardii is transient so it would eventually have to make its way to your colon to leave your body. plus, all those enemas are washing away flora. Remi96 said she did them with water every few days for 2 or 3 weeks but the stopped, and then only took s boulardii orally. why not continue nystatin enemas and take s boulardii orally? or how about colon hydration therapy (don't eat for several hours) followed by a large dose of nystatin, then s boulardii a few hours later.

Jorge, when you do nystatin enemas, do your kidneys and liver hurt? i've tried them a few times, because I know the overgrowth is definitely in my colon, and i've gotten rid of candida everywhere else in my digestive tract. i can't seem to fully knock it out of the colon. and i'm afraid of the nystatin enemas because my organs hurt for days afterwards, from the die-off. i only have 90 tablets of nystatin left. baking soda, h202, nothing else in enema form gives me candida die-off. only nystatin.

and now i can't take s boulardii because it gives me a sinus infection. i was able to get rid of that by sniffing nystatin for a week. Dr. Crook recommended that in a post i found.

another thought - if you read James (Hvergerarthi) on Curezone (now he has his own forum, medcapsules.com) - he says it's all about changing the gut back to an acidic state, from alkaline. And the way to do that is with kefir. I've been eating kefir grains, about 4 tablespoons a day, throughout the day. just can't yet tell if it's working.

-MGL
Offline mygutleaks  
#3 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 9:35:57 AM(UTC)
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also, have you thought about trying the GAPS diet or Specific Carbohydrate Diet? GAPS is the newer version built off of SCD (SCD was based on a diet by Dr. Haas). The body ecology diet is similar but I've read its more of a scam to sell product. You can learn about and do GAPS without ever having to buy anything. I read the book and it's not really worth buying once you have the knowledge that you do. I'm doing the GAPS diet, but without fruit (or at least trying to, but slipped a couple times). Basically, just eliminate any grains you are eating. This eliminates inflammation in the GI. And eat bone broth soup which is high in glycine, etc., to heal the gut. Dr. Campbell (GAPS author) says that GAPS alone will eventually eliminate candida by building up good flora. A lot of autistic children, who have very high candida levels, along with mercury and other toxins, seem to respond very well to GAPS and SCD.

She's a bit unclear about when to add in fruit, as fruit is on the diet - in addition to veggies & meat. She does say that anything sweet will feed candida and to be careful. but in GAPS she's mostly dealing with austic children who are extremely fussy eaters. and most parents of the kids have been giving them lots of sugar, just gluten & casein free products - but the idea behind GAPS is that you have to do more than just GF & CF - you have to eliminate grains 100%. and supplement with fermented foods at almost every meal.

just a thought - what about giving your organs a rest from antifungals and killing, and focusing on boosting good flora and eliminating inflammation? I'm not sure of your diet, so i'm just throwing this out there.

I've been eating dandelion greens which is a prebiotic. But avoiding other prebiotics such as rice bran as that is considered GAPS illegal because it is a grain, and contains phytates. I've been eating almonds, but also soaking them and dehydrating them. I did notice more inflammation though, so perhaps I was eating too many. The paleo diet gurus say only eat a small handful everyday because of high PFUAs (paleohacks.com).

Offline dvjorge  
#4 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 10:20:21 AM(UTC)
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Yes, but I have serious doubts that S. Boulardii survives the stomach acid and organs fluid in its way to the colon. S. Boulardii, when alive, colonizes the intestines massively. It is a temporary colonization but able to antagonize pathogens and segregate a high amount of Capryc Acid. Candida Albicans can not live together with S. Boulardii. The idea is to take it orally and also by enemas. It is only something I would like to experiment. As you said, the colon is the nightmare because it is very hard to get there.
Remi96 did enemas for years. At first, she stopped because was afraid but later, she continued until reaching a cure.

I am not taking antifungals. I have time eating almost normal Taking 36 billons of S. Boulardii by day plus home made kefir.

Jorge.
Offline dvjorge  
#5 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 10:25:09 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mygutleaks Go to Quoted Post
i don't think it's a good idea. It's probably not necessary because S Boulardii is transient so it would eventually have to make its way to your colon to leave your body. plus, all those enemas are washing away flora. Remi96 said she did them with water every few days for 2 or 3 weeks but the stopped, and then only took s boulardii orally. why not continue nystatin enemas and take s boulardii orally? or how about colon hydration therapy (don't eat for several hours) followed by a large dose of nystatin, then s boulardii a few hours later.

Jorge, when you do nystatin enemas, do your kidneys and liver hurt? i've tried them a few times, because I know the overgrowth is definitely in my colon, and i've gotten rid of candida everywhere else in my digestive tract. i can't seem to fully knock it out of the colon. and i'm afraid of the nystatin enemas because my organs hurt for days afterwards, from the die-off. i only have 90 tablets of nystatin left. baking soda, h202, nothing else in enema form gives me candida die-off. only nystatin.

and now i can't take s boulardii because it gives me a sinus infection. i was able to get rid of that by sniffing nystatin for a week. Dr. Crook recommended that in a post i found.

another thought - if you read James (Hvergerarthi) on Curezone (now he has his own forum, medcapsules.com) - he says it's all about changing the gut back to an acidic state, from alkaline. And the way to do that is with kefir. I've been eating kefir grains, about 4 tablespoons a day, throughout the day. just can't yet tell if it's working.

-MGL


I have had long discussions with Hvergerarti in Curezone ( more than one time ) I disagree with many of his therory, and don't know a single candida sufferer cured following his ideas.
Your organs don't hurt, it is your colon what hurt.

Jorge.

Offline fixme  
#6 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 12:55:30 PM(UTC)
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How does one know if their candida has left the intestines and is only in the colon? Is this usually the case after it's out of the intestines?
Offline Ruffian  
#7 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 5:16:44 PM(UTC)
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As a last straw I started enemas this week. Did one baking soda, a couple Nystatin powder, and one today with powdered Vitamin C. I must say that I feel better today after the Vitamin C one. Thoughts?

C.
"Each patient carries his own doctor inside him". -Norman Cousins, Anatomy of an Illness
Offline mygutleaks  
#8 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 7:46:37 PM(UTC)
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i can tell it's out of the intestines based on when i get a reaction from the nystatin. also, i've stopped getting a reaction from the nystatin, but can still feel some candida left in me. hmm.. also you get to a point where you can just tell. when i first started the nystatin, i had a lot of trouble sleeping, my legs were very heavy, i was rashy.

Jorge, according to what I've read about S Boulardii, it does survive stomach acid very well. I just brewed some Kombucha, which contains S Boulardii. Figured i'd see if it gives me the same reaction as pill form S Boulardii. It was as easy as water kefir to make. Got a slight headache after drinking. I'm going to go slow and maybe have a few sips per day. Perhaps you could do an enema with kombucha.

You mention you're eating normal. But don't you have a leaky gut from all of the candida? What about a transition diet - from a candida diet w/ no sugar, to perhaps the GAPS diet with a limited amount of low glycemic fruit (green apples, grapefruit, berries) - maybe for six months to a year. Heal your gut. Then eventually add in soaked grains and more inflammatory foods. There are many variations - an anti-inflammatory diet, a hypothyroidism diet, FODMAPS, Specific Carbohydrate diet, GAPS, etc. Just a thought.

Also, I'm certain the pain I felt from the Nystatin enema was not in my colon. My colon felt fine. It was my liver and kidneys. They would ache just like they did if i took too much nystatin without molybdenum. Even just a few weeks ago, i tried it again, after my white tongue is almost gone, feeling no die-off.. and still, just a couple tablets worth direct in to the colon, made them hurt the next few days. you never felt this?

-MGL
Offline kodaz2005  
#9 Posted : Saturday, February 09, 2013 10:05:27 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: mygutleaks Go to Quoted Post
i can tell it's out of the intestines based on when i get a reaction from the nystatin. also, i've stopped getting a reaction from the nystatin, but can still feel some candida left in me. hmm.. also you get to a point where you can just tell. when i first started the nystatin, i had a lot of trouble sleeping, my legs were very heavy, i was rashy.

Jorge, according to what I've read about S Boulardii, it does survive stomach acid very well. I just brewed some Kombucha, which contains S Boulardii. Figured i'd see if it gives me the same reaction as pill form S Boulardii. It was as easy as water kefir to make. Got a slight headache after drinking. I'm going to go slow and maybe have a few sips per day. Perhaps you could do an enema with kombucha.

You mention you're eating normal. But don't you have a leaky gut from all of the candida? What about a transition diet - from a candida diet w/ no sugar, to perhaps the GAPS diet with a limited amount of low glycemic fruit (green apples, grapefruit, berries) - maybe for six months to a year. Heal your gut. Then eventually add in soaked grains and more inflammatory foods. There are many variations - an anti-inflammatory diet, a hypothyroidism diet, FODMAPS, Specific Carbohydrate diet, GAPS, etc. Just a thought.

Also, I'm certain the pain I felt from the Nystatin enema was not in my colon. My colon felt fine. It was my liver and kidneys. They would ache just like they did if i took too much nystatin without molybdenum. Even just a few weeks ago, i tried it again, after my white tongue is almost gone, feeling no die-off.. and still, just a couple tablets worth direct in to the colon, made them hurt the next few days. you never felt this?

-MGL


This thread is very interesting. I really wish we had more alternative ideas floating around this forum more like this thread. MGL, after reading some of dvjorge's previous posts about his success with Nystatin enemas, I decided to give it a try. I only did it once, but I also felt the same pain you are referring to in the Kidney liver area later that night. It never occurred to me to think that it was die off, I just got a little worried about the pain from that area.

Since I don't recall your history on this forum, what success have you had with the GAPS diet if any? Also, how long did you try the Candida diet for? Since you have the user name, "My gut Leaks" I would imagine you have some reason to be quite sure you have leaky gut. How can you be so sure you have it and is there anything we can do to confirm we have leaky gut?



Offline mygutleaks  
#10 Posted : Sunday, February 10, 2013 10:32:31 AM(UTC)
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hi Kodaz,

There are more threads like this one over at the Curezone forum. If you read through the old posts there, going back several years, sometimes up to 8 years, you will learn a ton about what people have tried and what has worked.

Here is my history - I have probably had candida for about 20 years. I took a lot of antibiotics, first as a child for strep and then as a teenager for constant sinus infections. Around age 13 I developed bad skin which never went away until I stopped eating gluten, milk and some other foods. Now that I look back, I was always quite lethargic too. Was sick a lot with colds. And I think going off to college and drinking beer probably increased some of my lethargy and brain fog. But that was the extent of my candidiasis. Once I stopped eating the foods, my sinus infections rarely came back. Over time though, my food allergies got worse and I started to react to more and more foods. I wanted a way to cure my allergies so I could eat normally again, so I saw several allergists and finally one, an MD doctor (go figure), told me I had an overgrowth of candida. And then confirmed it with a CDSA 2.0 stool test. He put me on six months of nystatin tablets, 3 per day. I also added in betaine hcl. I could now eat most vegetables again without reacting. I've been doing the candida diet, mixed in with GAPS, for about six months now. At first I was strict with it for about a month. The nystatin worked great, it seemed to clear all of my upper intestine candida. I had reactions such as intense itching in certain areas, a biting feeling on random parts of my skin, heavy legs, crawling on my scalp, trouble sleeping unless i took molybdenum. If i woke up in the middle of the night, i would pop a moly and that would usually allow me to sleep again. About a month in to the diet, I had been reading a lot on GAPS and SCD and decided to add in fruit. I had lost a lot of weight and was looking like death. And people were telling me i looked bad, plus the wife was on my case. I didn't really have any negative reactions from the fruit, so it was hard to tell that it was feeding my candida. And it really helped me put weight back on - i gained like 10 lbs in two weeks and looked much better. However, about 3 months in, my organs started to hurt - probably because i was killing off and then feeding it. In addition to the Nystatin, I was also taking SF722 at times. Sometimes coconut oil. Eating lots of avocadoes. Plus I tried the Nystatin enema. Early on I had also used black walnut hull w/ wormwood and cloves, to kill off any parasites. I do seem to be grinding my teeth less, so perhaps i did have them, even though my CDSA said i did not - they are usually not accurrate or so i've read from others' experiences.

I've never been tested for Leaky Gut, although there are intestinal permeability tests you can do. The way I interpret Leaky Gut - it is the disease and candida is one of the causes. If you have fungal candida, you have a leaky gut. And you may also have parasites, heavy metal toxicity, SIBO, gerd, h pylori, low stomach acid, liver issues, adrenal fatigue, autoimmune diseases. From my reading, it sounds to me like most autoimmune diseases are in fact caused by a Leaky Gut. I can just tell i have it because when i eat certain foods, two days later i will break out. However, if i stay away from them, my face is 100% clear. it seems that if i avoid inflammation in the gut, i do not break out. and it looks like that is the key to ultimately healing the gut barrier, once the candida is gone.

To answer your question - I haven't really been strict with the candida diet for more than a month at one time. However, during that month, I was very strict and did not cheat at all. From Jan 1 to say Feb 5, I was very strict and only ate veggies and meat and didn't cheat once. Then i got cravings for fruit and gave in. At first it was a melon and blueberries, then the next day I tried a granny smith apple and some blueberries, then the next day a white grapefruit and blueberries. I noticed a bit more itching on all of the days. However, my tongue either looked a bit better or looked the same. It is almost totally clear, with just a very slight white coating in the back. it's almost not even white. i can also brush it off 100% - something i couldn't do for at least 3 months. but it does come back to a tiny bit of coating about 3 hours later. so i know i've made a lot of progress getting rid of the pathogens. but i still feel something in my colon. it's almost like a crawling sensation once in a while. the good news was when i did the nystatin enema the last time, i got out a lot less white gunk. so that would indicate my active infection has lessened.

Perhaps the answer is simple - just continuing on a strict diet for a longer period of time and taking some, but not too many, antifungals. And hoping it eventually kills off whatever is in the colon. Or, maybe I need to do what dvjorge did and do enemas very frequently - however my body just doesn't feel good after that, and so i'm going to try the first approach first. Also I am pounding the kefir cultures. I'm growing enough so that I can eat them. I can't yet tell if that is working. The idea is from an herbalist who used to post on Curezone, until he got in too many arguments and got kicked off.. i think over liver flushing.. he says it is fake. anyways.. his argument is that if you change the pH of the gut back to acidic, by repopulating with lactic acid producing bacteria (both with pro and prebiotics), you disable the gene that allows candida to mutute to a pathenogenic form. However, he doesn't think that diet is too important and from my experience diet is very important. So now we're back to the whole idea of the Candida diet website - diet, antifungals and eat kefir. It seemed to work for Able, Raster and most of the people who actually stuck with it long enough, so why reinvent the process.. or at least give it a six month try first.. and then see if further action is necessary. now if i could only take my own suggestion...

-MGL
Offline TimPG  
#11 Posted : Sunday, February 10, 2013 2:10:14 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dvjorge Go to Quoted Post
Candida Albicans can not live together with S. Boulardii. The idea is to take it orally and also by enemas.
Related, I found this to be intriguing, from http://healthygoods.com/...l-treatment-protocol.pdf [page 2], although it is addressing ulcerative colitis (and not candida---but who knows, and maybe it would address leaky gut):

'7. For the most rapid healing of your large intestine:

a. Obtain an enema kit, add 1 cup of filtered water, a ½ capful of Electrolyte concentrate, open 6 capsules of Cal Mag Butyrate, 5 capsules of Saccharomyces boulardii and mix well. Fill the enema kit with this solution, add some mineral oil or olive oil to the enema tip and take the contents directly into your rectum. After the enema kit is empty, remove the enema tip and turn on your left side.

b. Retain the mixture as long as possible. Stay on your left side for a moment. Then roll on your back and lift your legs and stomach up (shoulder stand yoga pose). Stay in this pose for a moment and then rotate out of it onto your right side. Stay on your right side until you feel the urge to evacuate.

c. Do the retention enema daily.'

I happen to have all those ingredients on hand---Cal-Mag Butyrate (Ecological Formulas from Vitamin Shoppe Online), Saccharomyces Boulardii (Jarrow Formulas), and use sea salt as my enema electrolyte (their "Electrolyte concentrate" is a combo of sodium/potassium/magnesium).

My sea salt solution is in the amount of 1 teaspoon per liter---that's from http://flowingfree.org/7...ons-you-can-use-at-home/ , which is under "7. Salt Water Enema":

'Salt Water Enema Recipe:

● 2 tsp pure sea salt
● 2 litres warm filtered water'

So, I might give the added Cal-Mag Butyrate and Saccharomyces Boulardii a try, but I don't expect to see results for some time---I'm sure it's a gradual process (weeks or months or more).

Tim

Edited by user Sunday, February 10, 2013 4:06:34 PM(UTC)  | Reason: clarification

Offline kodaz2005  
#12 Posted : Tuesday, February 12, 2013 5:14:24 PM(UTC)
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Hey MGL,

Sorry for that late reply, I was one of the unlucky ones without power for a few days so it was crazy for a while.

Thanks for all of the details. We all have some of these crazy stories. I took a pharmaceutical drug for a number of years that caused my overgrowth.

I was in a panic for months and months trying to figure out what was wrong with me. I had a scan done of my gall bladder and liver. The test did came back abnormal. It stated something was in my gallbladder that was causing problems. The size was well under the size where they would recommend removing it.

Anyway so when I finally put all the pieces of the puzzle together my symptoms aligned with Candida. I tried the diet about a year and half ago and found it so difficult that I quit. I kept telling myself I don't even know if it is Candida.

As time went on I still thought about how I know something is wrong with me nearly every day. My symptoms were becoming worse, so I started the diet again in December and I had some improvements. Then I became more focused. Now that I think back to the scan of my lower intestines, I'm thinking I probably have a large infestation in my gall bladder. That would explain the pain I felt after the 1 time Enema I did with Nystatin.

Why not do Nystatin Retention Enemas and followed by a Molybdenum Retention Enema? That way we can get the Moly right to the organs to keep them safe. If these organs are infested it seems like taking strong anti-fungals orally may be too diluted by the time they actually get all the way to their most important destination.

How common is it to have an infestation in your organs anyway?
Offline mygutleaks  
#13 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 4:30:22 PM(UTC)
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Would a molybdenum retention enema get the moly to the liver? I dunno, i would say do the enema and orally take the moly to get it to the liver for sure. Also, remi96 from the curezone board, did the enemas with water only and that worked for her. That was after she did Colon Hydration therapy, which she said worked very well because it cleaned out the entire colon including the cecum, way at the other end, which is someplace we cannot reach with enemas. This was the site where she got the idea, http://www.lifeknox.com/candida.htm basically Dr. Knox says doing several colon hydration therapy sessions within a short period of time, will clear candida out of the colon better than anything and allow the colon to rebalance.
Offline dvjorge  
#14 Posted : Saturday, February 16, 2013 7:12:25 PM(UTC)
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I have to say that after one month with high doses of S. Boulardii plus a couple of retention enemas with it, my intestinal cramps are gone. Listen carefully, I am eating a high carbohydrate diet. It is sad I can not post pictures right here. I have gained almost 20 pounds. I look myself again. Don't know yet what is going to happen long term but it has worked marvelously.

I will continue taking it.

Jorge.
Offline lmm  
#15 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 4:52:04 AM(UTC)
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This is really brilliant news.

Out of interest, do S.b. destroy good bacteria when taken orally? Do you treat it like an anti-fungal or like a long/indefinite term probiotic?

Len
Offline fixme  
#16 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 9:44:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: dvjorge Go to Quoted Post
I have to say that after one month with high doses of S. Boulardii plus a couple of retention enemas with it, my intestinal cramps are gone. Listen carefully, I am eating a high carbohydrate diet. It is sad I can not post pictures right here. I have gained almost 20 pounds. I look myself again. Don't know yet what is going to happen long term but it has worked marvelously.

I will continue taking it.

Jorge.


I'm not caught up with all your posts. Did you have thrush too or were your only final symptoms intestinal cramps (same as leaky gut?)? And were you not doing the diet anymore once you started the s boulardii or just now(high carb "diet")?
Great to hear you're feeling relief

Edited by user Monday, February 18, 2013 9:51:47 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline vcast  
#17 Posted : Monday, February 18, 2013 11:47:10 PM(UTC)
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My LLMD has me on a similar routine to this. I am flushing the toxins and Candida from my colon using green coffee/green tea enemas and taking pulse-doses of oral Saccharomyces Boulardii to attack the Candida. For me this is working and is nothing short of amazing.

My understanding is that S. Boulardii feeds on the Candida and leaves the other bacteria/yeast alone. Like most flora, you do not need to take S. Boulardii everyday. Just long enough to establish a colony and then once a week to maintain the colony.

Im under massive, longterm antibiotics so my situation may be different than most.
Offline mrs.candida  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:56:00 AM(UTC)
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vcast,

What's your diet like? Also, what's a pulse dose?
This is so interesting, thank you everyone.

Offline lmm  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, February 19, 2013 4:40:59 PM(UTC)
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I find myself with more questions too. Very interesting. So, if you're constantly topping up the colony, how do you create space for probiotics - or does the S.B compete with candida and the probiotics compete with the S.B? My understanding was that you let it compete for space with the candida, and then let it die a week or so later.

Len
Offline fixme  
#20 Posted : Tuesday, February 19, 2013 6:17:23 PM(UTC)
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Jorge would you mind posting how many times a day you took S boulardii and the exact dosage? How much was in the enemas? Did you put the capsule powder in the enema?
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