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Offline Latka  
#1 Posted : Friday, May 25, 2012 12:13:21 AM(UTC)
Latka
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I've been on the strict forum diet for 4 weeks now. And before that a year of a more allowing Candida diet. I have never experienced any die off as far as I know. However my food reactions have been getting worse: I react to all foods with massive bloating and gas now. Whenever I eat I balloon up shortly afterwards.

I actually decided to eliminate eggs for a while to see if that helps. I suspected that maybe I have eaten them too much lately and developed an intoleranse to them. I have heard that this can happen with a leaky gut. I am hoping that in time as the gut heals I will be able to eat them again?

However today I had as severe reactions to broccoli and sardines, as well as to kefir and flax seed. Starting to wonder if the bloating might be caused by the stronger probiotics that I am taking since a week - is that possible? I went from Udo's 5 to taking Innate Response 14-20. I'm taking one a day and hoping to increase to two a day soon.

Is it possible the bloating is caused by the new probiotics? Should I go down to a lower dose for a while or just put up with the reactions?



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Offline Thomas  
#2 Posted : Friday, May 25, 2012 12:27:29 AM(UTC)
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Latka wrote:
I've been on the strict forum diet for 4 weeks now. And before that a year of a more allowing Candida diet. I have never experienced any die off as far as I know. However my food reactions have been getting worse: I react to all foods with massive bloating and gas now. Whenever I eat I balloon up shortly afterwards.

I actually decided to eliminate eggs for a while to see if that helps. I suspected that maybe I have eaten them too much lately and developed an intoleranse to them. I have heard that this can happen with a leaky gut. I am hoping that in time as the gut heals I will be able to eat them again?

However today I had as severe reactions to broccoli and sardines, as well as to kefir and flax seed. Starting to wonder if the bloating might be caused by the stronger probiotics that I am taking since a week - is that possible? I went from Udo's 5 to taking Innate Response 14-20. I'm taking one a day and hoping to increase to two a day soon.

Is it possible the bloating is caused by the new probiotics? Should I go down to a lower dose for a while or just put up with the reactions?



Hi there,
do you know if you have Candida? I experienced the same reaction as you and later after 5 month figured out that I didnt have Candida but IBS-D type.
The sypthoms are the same as in Candida but what was confusing to me was that I grew worse and worse being on the diet.

The reason for me was an unbalance of bacteria in the small intestines. These bacteria, they can even be good bacteria, living from fibers - like broccoli and many of the foods here on the diet. While eating the high fiber diet here you will feed the bacteria, these are producing poisons gas and you swell up like a balloon, get diarrhoea, wind, brain-fog, nausea, anxiety, even panic attacks.

Then when you push more bacteria into the system, good ones, picking up the fight for food and producing gas. Well, figure yourself. I didnt feel so good either with my probiotics while I still was feeding the others guys.

After I am on a "un-healthy" diet not eating fiber. I am ok. All my terrible symptoms vanished. I now and then try some of my old pro-biotica but I get an nausea reaction. So I keep cool with them. I eat a lot of eggs and dont have problems.

If the diet dont work move on and search like Sherlock Holmes. I found that my case was IBS with an intolerance to fiber.

cheers
Thomas


Edited by user Friday, May 25, 2012 12:28:52 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Latka  
#3 Posted : Friday, May 25, 2012 12:58:22 AM(UTC)
Latka
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Hi Thomas!

Thanks for your answer. I am no longer sure what I have is Candida. The stool test a year ago didn't find any Candida but my doctor decided to treat me for it based on my reactions and symptoms. However the bloating and gas problem has stayed the same. actually even gotten worse over the past year. I know I will need to do my own research and figure this out somehow. My doctor already gave up because he doesn't know what to do next.

I don't know if it is IBS though because I don't tend to get diarrhea. On the contrary. I'm having a hard time keeping the bowel movements regular.

I have also noticed that I get massive bloating and pains if I first go hungry before I eat. And that has happened a lot while being on this stricter diet now (I bring a lot of food with me to work but it just deosn't seem to be enough).If I go hungry a while and then eat, does not matter what I eat, it seems like my body has a hard time "accepting" it. I have a feeling this is an aspect I should look into, though I cannot explain why it would be significant yet.

I shall continue my search.
Offline raster  
#4 Posted : Friday, May 25, 2012 3:30:20 AM(UTC)
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Latka, I have a theory to what may be happening with you. The probiotics are killing candida, which had roots throughout your intestines. When the candida is removed, it leaves holes behind where the roots used to exist. This is why you are having leaky gut symptoms; you are killing candida rather effectively and now your food is leaking from the gut.

Soon, I'd start to focus on healing leaky gut some if possible. Miracle fiber, glutamine, fermented cod liver oil, prebiotics, foods with FOS, and a giant list of other supplements I have on the forum can heal leaky gut.

As far as gas; I personally get it when I eat protein (such as eggs, meat, yogurt, etc). I wouldn't look at this as a "reaction" but more of a cause and effect type of thing...protein is causing the gas; protein is not causing a leaky gut allergic reaction. Leaky gut reactions typically happen immediately after eating food and it gives you symptoms similar to hyperventilation.

I take a supplement called zypan which can completely eliminate or reduce gas. It also heals the pancreas and spleen which is likely what is causing this symptom.

I say put up with the reactions and start to heal leaky gut. If you further reduced your diet, it could be problematic in the future; I would only remove whatever is giving you a reaction the "worse."

-raster
Offline Latka  
#5 Posted : Friday, May 25, 2012 4:25:01 AM(UTC)
Latka
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Thanks for your answer Raster. You might be right. I do hope I am killing Candida because so far I have not been able to tell whether my approach is doing anything at all; I have never experienced any die-off as such and so far nothing's come out that would indicate it. If only I could know that I am at least on the right track then I suppose it would be easier to accept these problems as temporary inconveniences.

Actually my reactions have gotten a lot worse; I now get bloated every time I eat, regardless of the type of food I eat. (Though I do remember that the one thing I did not get it from was red meat when I still ate it. Of course now I no longer eat it so cannot know if that would be the case). I can see your point of not reducing my diet any further though.

What is it with spleen and pancreas that might be causing these problems? Does this have to do with the production of digestive entzymes (or rather the lack of it)?

For healing leaky gut I am taking l-glutamine and FOS. Maybe I will need to get something else as well and address the issue more thoroughly.
Offline raster  
#6 Posted : Friday, May 25, 2012 5:14:38 AM(UTC)
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I can't really answer the question because I don't know enough about how the human body really works; all I know is zypan works and it heals these two organs. These organs are likely slightly damaged and thus aren't functioning normally; the zypan also contains HCL which you've inquired about on another post. The difference between zypan and HCL is that zypan heals while HCL does not heal as far as I know.

-raster
Offline Thomas  
#7 Posted : Friday, May 25, 2012 6:00:03 AM(UTC)
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Gas and wind you too get when bacteria is feeding. The feeding bacteria is producing Hydrogen. Its the fermenting process in your intestines. Have you tested how quick your digestion is? One day I was eating pine-apple and after 5 hours it came out undigested with the stool. I found that a bit fast but I was happy to have to tell something to my MD. So, slowly I figured that I have a malfermentation IBS. There are different ones with different treatments.

Now if you believe that you have Candida, by all means put your action there but for me it was already after 3 days better and after one week I had no reactions.
So, if you dont reach your goal with the candida diet. Test for a week or two a low fibre diet.

Today I learned that Avocados are one of the highest fiber you can get and while I was here for 2.5 month on the diet my staple food was Avocado, broccoli, sauerkraut, etc. No wonder I was slowly dying. For fixing constipation you should exercise, dont put off going to the lavatory, drink plenty, the high fibre diet here is good for you as long as you figure out what food makes you sick, you might be intolerant to a couple of them. You too can test the low fibre diet and eat a none ferment-able bulking agent like linseeds they are not soluble and bacteria cant eat them but they loosen up your stool.

all the best
Thomas

Offline Latka  
#8 Posted : Monday, May 28, 2012 6:14:13 PM(UTC)
Latka
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Thanks Thomas!

I am reading about IBS as it is something I will need to consider. I have also read about fibre and how it is generally good for healthy people but may in fact cause more trouble for those with burdened digestive system (i.e if you are constipated it can in fact make you more so).

My digestion time seems to be very slow, about 48 hours. Obviously constipation is the biggest problem. I have been using flaxseed everyday. I also take slippery elm since a week with no noticeable effect. Kefir used to help but now I have been avoiding it as I suspected it was making me bloated. I drink a lot of water and need to run to toilet every hour because of it. I start the day with hot water with lemon juice as it is supposed to help. Still I'm constipated. I am way too tired with this Candida diet to exercise except for biking to work every day.
Offline Javizy  
#9 Posted : Monday, May 28, 2012 9:12:33 PM(UTC)
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Researching IBS is pretty much a waste of time. It's only a matter of time before it's recognised simply as dysbiosis. This recent study, Irritable Bowel Syndrome Clearly Linked to Gut Bacteria, draws a link with SIBO, which would give you most symptoms above the naval. There are different causes, but one of them is PPI/antacid use leading to low stomach acid and undigested, unsanitised food reaching the small intestine. This allows the entry of live bacteria, provides a food source, and leads to a more hospitable environment for them (less acid = less bicarbonate). This explains why zypan/HCl helps people with bloating.

The reason I say IBS is a waste of time is because it's a label used by doctors to give a non-diagnosis. You might find things like low-fibre or low-FODMAP diets that help to suppress symptoms, but as long as the overgrowth remains, you're just prolonging your agony. You have to remember that starving the bacteria in the SI means starving the good bacteria in the colon. Massive overgrowth of pathogens in the colon is another route to SIBO. Without fully restoring the balance of the entire GI tract, you can't hope to find a cure.

Thomas is right that it's important to find out if you have SIBO, because you will be feeding the bacteria with soluble fibre. I think a biofilm protocol might be helpful along with some antimicrobials like GSE. Bacteria use quorum sensing to develop biofilms and transfer genes, which is only effective in large enough numbers. If they've overgrown enough to cause symptoms, it seems reasonable enough to assume they're doing this.

Anyway, I'd do more research on SIBO if you have symptoms above the naval. The only way to resolve constipation is by getting the bacteria in the bowel back in shape. Stool is over 60% bacteria and they need to feed on soluble fibre. Insoluble fibre like the junk in wheat bran is just an irritant and the fact it's recommended shows how much the medical profession understands about crap.
Offline Latka  
#10 Posted : Monday, May 28, 2012 11:26:20 PM(UTC)
Latka
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Location: Oslo, Norway

Hi Javizy! That's interesting. Have been reading about SIBO now and the symptoms certainly match. I'll obviously need to read more to get my head around this.
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